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Fix the Stupid Water Physics (Bouncing, mostly)
2018-06-16, 08:47 PM
Post: #1
Sad Fix the Stupid Water Physics (Bouncing, mostly)
I think that some change a few months ago, not sure which update, made even well-balanced and well-made ships bounce. I don't mean going up a meter or 2 over the desired waterline. I mean 5-15 meters.

I have an ironclad I made for the OW campaign, which bounces between -3m (underwater) and 7m (above water). I have a cruiser which does about the same, just in a wider range. These vehicles often pitch up and down quite extremely, even though the cruiser's length is 8x its width. Roll isn't the best either. I cannot make my ships be stable enough to be usable, because they move so erratically it is hard to aim, the vastly differing water level means the CoDrag changes by a few meters, and a lot of propultion components are above water. I've tried many stabilization systems, with limited success for a lot of effort. Hydrofoils set at 45 where the water line should be doesn't work, sometimes even worsening the bounce. I've tried PIDs and props, but that doesn't even work too well. This is a problem for experienced players, but I believe it would be unbearable for new players trying to learn. I've also noticed that some quite large ships, like OW sailing ships, will bouncy completely out of the water, too, just in simple conditions. The only time a ship should get anywhere close to out of the water is if a large depth charge explodes in the midpoint between a ship nad the bottom of the ocean. Explosions, no matter where they hit, can easily make things fly.

I've also noticed that even small, presumably stable ships like the OW Bastion and Telemachus and the DWG Corsair have PID systems, because ships just cannot be easily made stable.

Just please, make the water of Neter made of something other than Jello.

(2017-04-20 06:54 PM)Hikari Wrote:  I made something that has an impact of a type 1a supernova. The projectile already breaks laws of physics by going way past the speed of light.

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2018-06-16, 09:55 PM
Post: #2
RE: Fix the Stupid Water Physics (Bouncing, mostly)
I can confirm that ship instability and bounciness not only exists in earth-like physics (the Earth Default Settings option in the game configuration) but, if anything, is worse. I don't know why though. Most of the ships I've built for that setting incorporate PID systems.
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2018-06-17, 06:15 AM (This post was last modified: 2018-06-17 06:16 AM by gxy.)
Post: #3
RE: Fix the Stupid Water Physics (Bouncing, mostly)
Its worse because drag is lower and doesn't clamp the ridiculous forces down. Though even then, drag works to destablise everything even more because it is yet another massive force.
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2018-06-18, 12:16 AM
Post: #4
RE: Fix the Stupid Water Physics (Bouncing, mostly)
I think it may have to do with the water physics themselves, not necessarily the settings.

(2017-04-20 06:54 PM)Hikari Wrote:  I made something that has an impact of a type 1a supernova. The projectile already breaks laws of physics by going way past the speed of light.

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2018-06-18, 06:55 AM
Post: #5
RE: Fix the Stupid Water Physics (Bouncing, mostly)
Yes, physics change is a must before beta - and that means redesign the whole campaigns.
Are there values you've experimented with which makes them more right? Then it would be simple to set - aside from the abovementioned redesign.

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2018-06-18, 12:15 PM
Post: #6
RE: Fix the Stupid Water Physics (Bouncing, mostly)
If it bounces when it doesnt move, it is because it does not simulates drag on each block.
When it is rotating from up to down, upward drag force must be applied on its nose and downward force must be applied on its tail,
but it looks that drag force is only applied base on velocity at CoM.
Rotating velocity looks like reduced by other simplified logic.

If it pitches up when it is driving it's due to the ridiculous force and drag. I had though it would be solved after drag was applied on center of surface, but it was not enough and driving force (and drag) have to small enough not to cause to rotate before the restoring moment work.
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2018-06-18, 01:27 PM (This post was last modified: 2018-06-18 01:28 PM by gxy.)
Post: #7
RE: Fix the Stupid Water Physics (Bouncing, mostly)
You can set all physics factors to a tenth of what it is and ships will not react as much to changing water levels, or increase water drag but that means that it gets ridiculous if you leave any unaerodynamic part hanging out when you move at high speed.(I have had a symmetrical vehicle pitch up out of control because I placed a single wooden block on deck while it was moving) Haven't done much testing other than that.
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2018-06-18, 01:43 PM (This post was last modified: 2018-06-18 01:45 PM by Willie Fiddler.)
Post: #8
RE: Fix the Stupid Water Physics (Bouncing, mostly)
A major physics revamp has been on the table for a long time, but they have been holding of on it because it will break all of the designs. I personally think we should bite the bullet, it must be done before launch so why not now.

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2018-06-18, 03:48 PM
Post: #9
RE: Fix the Stupid Water Physics (Bouncing, mostly)
(2018-06-18 01:43 PM)Willie Fiddler Wrote:  all of the designs

No. It might be a minute thing but only who uses heli blades and jet for lifting.
Some guys already notice lifting irself is a issue except for physics.

If we dealed with them we can fix two things with one stone.
There is no reason we have to start (if Nick is/was not absentSmile)
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2018-06-18, 06:12 PM
Post: #10
RE: Fix the Stupid Water Physics (Bouncing, mostly)
The issues is that the majority of blocks are far too bouyant which means weight doesnt have enough of a momentum effect on the physics engine
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