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Explosion mechanic questions
2018-04-13, 08:38 PM
Post: #1
Explosion mechanic questions
1- I've noticed a few times when testing that rambot appears to die from explosions on the other side of the wall/compartment that he's at (rambot dies whilst compartment is still intact), is this supposed to happen?

2- I know the explosion mechanics changed quite a while back, something like 2 years or so... I believe Nick made an image with it to highlight how the new mechanics worked and can't really find it, does anyone have a link to it perhaps?

3- Could anyone give me a rough indication about explosion strength? i've been looking at Explosive APS cannons but i've got no clue what kind of values to aim for against anything. For example, if i want to be somewhat effective against an DWG Atlas, how much explosive should i aim for? Or is Cram the only way explosives are worthwhile?

4- i've heard that explosion radius was buffed in unity 5? what is currently roughly the diameter?
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2018-04-13, 11:50 PM
Post: #2
RE: Explosion mechanic questions
(2018-04-13 08:38 PM)TheLightLOD Wrote:  1- I've noticed a few times when testing that rambot appears to die from explosions on the other side of the wall/compartment that he's at (rambot dies whilst compartment is still intact), is this supposed to happen?
It's a known problem.
The thing is, when an explosion occurs there are several things which happens.
You have an explosion that will hit the blocks, and then there will be some test to see if the avatar, the balloons, and a few other things are in range.
Unfortunately, that check do not take into account the blocks. To be honest, I haven't really looked at that part so I'm not 100% sure how it works.


(2018-04-13 08:38 PM)TheLightLOD Wrote:  2- I know the explosion mechanics changed quite a while back, something like 2 years or so... I believe Nick made an image with it to highlight how the new mechanics worked and can't really find it, does anyone have a link to it perhaps?
The explosion (against the blocks) has been completely overhauled a few months ago in order to fix the 'explosion goes through walls on turrets' bug.
Here is how it propagates:
[Image: 1qFDgLe.jpg]
Now the blocks on SubConstructs are taken into account as if they were on the same grid as the blocks of the MainConstruct.
Also, there is some sort of 'air-bleeding' feature, when the explosion expand, it loses 'energy' when it meets nothing, so it dissipate fast in open air, which makes it more powerful in closed spaces.


(2018-04-13 08:38 PM)TheLightLOD Wrote:  3- Could anyone give me a rough indication about explosion strength? i've been looking at Explosive APS cannons but i've got no clue what kind of values to aim for against anything. For example, if i want to be somewhat effective against an DWG Atlas, how much explosive should i aim for? Or is Cram the only way explosives are worthwhile?
Explosions deal more damage than before, but the damages are spread more evenly, so one explosion will destroy less blocks. But several explosions will destroy more blocks.
There's a specific mechanics for flak, which makes it spread even more but it deals a lot less damage on high-AC blocks (it won't really damage metal).
In general, HA is mostly immune to explosions, metal is a good defense, alloy will protect against a few explosion but will eventually be destroyed and wood will be destroyed very fast.
As for the strength necessary for a specific target, it all depends on where the shell land so it's a bit hard to answer.
But one thing is sure: the stronger the better!


(2018-04-13 08:38 PM)TheLightLOD Wrote:  4- i've heard that explosion radius was buffed in unity 5? what is currently roughly the diameter?
It's not a Unity thing, it's just the new algorithm which is more optimized and spread over several frames.
The default radius is now 30m.
You can change that (and a lot of explosion parameters) in the game configuration (where you can change all the physics constants).
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2018-04-15, 01:49 PM
Post: #3
RE: Explosion mechanic questions
Thank you for your answers, they're very clear.

1- What you could try in regards to the player getting damaged through walls is to do a check on whether the player is in a seat, and if so link the damage it receives to the damage that the seat receives.

2- If i read the diagram correctly, an explosion only blocks it can reach through line of sight OR a special case with bleeding around walls where the wall does not block line of sight from the explosion push direction (push direction based on location compared to explosion origin, same column/row = 1 push direction, otherwise 2 directions away from the origin). That sounds logical.

3- yeah, i guessed as much. Well on to experimenting.

4- ok, good to know.
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2018-04-15, 02:52 PM
Post: #4
RE: Explosion mechanic questions
(2018-04-15 01:49 PM)TheLightLOD Wrote:  1- What you could try in regards to the player getting damaged through walls is to do a check on whether the player is in a seat, and if so link the damage it receives to the damage that the seat receives.
The idea is good and simple to implement.

But you gave me an idea which may be even better.
I'll try to see if it can easily be done, but the idea is to find out where the avatar is in the grid and process it along with the blocks.
that way, walls will protect the avatar at all times (well, until they are knocked out of course...).


(2018-04-15 01:49 PM)TheLightLOD Wrote:  2- If i read the diagram correctly, an explosion only blocks it can reach through line of sight OR a special case with bleeding around walls where the wall does not block line of sight from the explosion push direction (push direction based on location compared to explosion origin, same column/row = 1 push direction, otherwise 2 directions away from the origin). That sounds logical.

Here is how The algorithm works (explained in 2D, but it can be extrapolated in 3D):
- the explosion expands by 'layers' (a square rotated by 45 degrees)
- for each block of the current layer, the explosion tries to expand as follow:
--- if it is on an axis, then it tries in 3 directions (forward and both 90 degrees)
--- if it is in a quadrant, then it tries to expand in the 2 directions corresponding to the quadrant

Of course in 3D there are the axis, the faces and the octants, but the idea is the same.
The drawback of this method is that it's hard to 'hide' from the explosion (a wall isn't enough, you need 2 walls at 90 degrees).
The good thing about it is that it's really fast, as every propagation directions can be pre-calculated.

Also, some blocks are hit several times by this algorithm, there is a counter and it is possible to use the number of times the block is hit, or to ignore it (depending on how the explosion parameters are configured).
Anyway, the block will be damaged only once (damaging a block takes some time).
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2018-04-15, 04:18 PM
Post: #5
RE: Explosion mechanic questions
Every algorithm has it's drawbacks, it's a choice one makes.

With From the Depths allowing the ship scales that it does i think you want this speed, besides i don't think the hiding is much of a problem if one of the other explosion's hitting the same area would hit that safe spot anyway. The drawback just will get nullified by how people play from the depths as it is hardly ever going to be 1 explosion, it's often going to be many explosions since that's how people play.
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2018-04-16, 09:35 AM
Post: #6
RE: Explosion mechanic questions
(2018-04-15 02:52 PM)Gladyon Wrote:  But you gave me an idea which may be even better.
I'll try to see if it can easily be done, but the idea is to find out where the avatar is in the grid and process it along with the blocks.
that way, walls will protect the avatar at all times (well, until they are knocked out of course...).

Hmmm...
When the enemy target prioritization has max (200) weight for the craft the avatar is on, is it aiming for the AI/ammo of the unit, or at the avatar?

From the Depths english playlist starts here, before that it's hungarian:
https://youtu.be/Ltdx0yVI9cA?list=PLImar...ZokVtdBa73
MULTIPLAYER!

[Image: 6yFiDvF.jpg]
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2018-04-16, 09:42 AM
Post: #7
RE: Explosion mechanic questions
(2018-04-16 09:35 AM)Normal69 Wrote:  When the enemy target prioritization has max (200) weight for the craft the avatar is on, is it aiming for the AI/ammo of the unit, or at the avatar?

That card is used to select which vehicle will be targeted, not which block.
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2018-04-16, 05:11 PM
Post: #8
RE: Explosion mechanic questions
On a related note, until the rambot explosion thing is fixed, or even if it isn't, could we get a bit more health on rambot? I like to put a chair in the superstructure just to be able to use the avatar view if I want it, but I'm tired of explosions ripping through the windows (or not) and just killing me. I understand it is a control on piracy, but still, its a bit annoying to just die because you want to have a nice bridge.

(2017-04-20 06:54 PM)Hikari Wrote:  I made something that has an impact of a type 1a supernova. The projectile already breaks laws of physics by going way past the speed of light.

2000mm HE Dakka Enthusiast
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2018-04-16, 05:33 PM
Post: #9
RE: Explosion mechanic questions
Just put Brawler skill on 500, haven't died since XD

There is always a weak-spot if you search Hard enough.

If you fire enough AP at that shield, at some point you're going to come through.

There is no "best" I wouldn't even say there is anything universally good, Good is subjective, I find everything bad even if it's in theory good against this or that.
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2018-04-16, 07:59 PM
Post: #10
RE: Explosion mechanic questions
I don't have 500 levels of experience, and besides, I want to use it for other things, like doubling shell velocity and accuracy, or missile reload and ammo use. Or simply to make my ships go super fast before I save them for higher map speed Big Grin

(2017-04-20 06:54 PM)Hikari Wrote:  I made something that has an impact of a type 1a supernova. The projectile already breaks laws of physics by going way past the speed of light.

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