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Ammunition hoists/Interturretconnector for APS and perhaps CRAM
2018-01-02, 02:21 PM (This post was last modified: 2018-01-02 02:21 PM by Eagle.)
Post: #1
Ammunition hoists/Interturretconnector for APS and perhaps CRAM
With the introduction of turret on turrets, I see possibilities for new types of guns, previously unavailable for builders.

However, given that you still have to attach every component to the firing piece in a physical manner means that the options are still limited.

What I would like is a non-cheaty way to be able to build swivel guns with a good RoF, in order to produce stuff like this:

[Image: 1920px-Gepard_1a2_overview.jpg]

So here is my suggestion, based on APS cannons (but might be extendable to CRAM):
Introduce ammo hoists/interturretconnectors for APS, which, like the laser tranceiver, can relay the ammunition from the turret base (master) to a slave turret.
The workings of the ammo hoists are similar to Tranceivers, in the sense that they need to be attached to opposite ends of the turret.

The following properties belong to the interturretconnectors:
- They can only be mounted on master and slave turrets. Not on the main construct.
- Their size depends on the loader size. If you use e.g. a 2m loader, you'd need to fit 2m hoists. This will likely place an incentive on using shorter loaders.
- A distance penalty is in place. When the distance becomes greater than three m, a reloading and cooling penalty of factor X/m is in place.
- The interturretconnectors will relay both cooling and gauge properties as well as ammo.
- The tranceiver can only connect one firing piece to one APS body.

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2018-01-02, 04:50 PM
Post: #2
RE: Ammunition hoists/Interturretconnector for APS and perhaps CRAM
I am very much in favor of this, provided of course that the stated restrictions on master and slave turret parts is kept. Putting together an authentic flak turret (at least I'm guessing that is what that tank is using above) would be smashing!
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2018-01-05, 05:34 PM
Post: #3
RE: Ammunition hoists/Interturretconnector for APS and perhaps CRAM
This sounds really good! I would however like 2 visually different versions.

One version looking like an ammo belt going from one block to the other. A bit like a flexible arm, much like a repair tentacle. Would be nice for smaller turrets and things.

One version that looks like a rigid tunnel with a rotatable top and bottom, so it would act like a battleship ammo hoist. For obvious purposes.

Of course, such visual differences can be modded in afterwards, so if I had to pick 1 representation, I'd go for the 'rigid pipeline' one.

I would drop the 'cannot be placed on main construct'. I dont think this limitation is at all necessary. All other points sound reasonable.

I only have 1 extra point to add: it should not be able to clip through the main vehicle (or anything, if at all possible). If it CAN clip through things, like a laser transceiver, it allows placing a cheap small gun in a small turret outside, and have the gun internals sit in a very thickly armored and completely enclosed hull. The completely enclosed-bit is the problem for me there.

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2018-01-05, 10:26 PM
Post: #4
RE: Ammunition hoists/Interturretconnector for APS and perhaps CRAM
I think it should be type of turret.
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2018-01-10, 07:06 PM
Post: #5
RE: Ammunition hoists/Interturretconnector for APS and perhaps CRAM
I think keep it only for subobjects. If it can be put on the hull, then fully armoring it will likely happen, and no turrets will have more than a head. The internals would stay protected, or even if there is a small gap, it speeds up turret rotation, increases protection, and makes more space efficient designs and discourages good turret tetris.

2000mm HE dakka enthusiast.
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2018-01-10, 07:57 PM
Post: #6
RE: Ammunition hoists/Interturretconnector for APS and perhaps CRAM
(2018-01-05 05:34 PM)NutterChap Wrote:  I only have 1 extra point to add: it should not be able to clip through the main vehicle (or anything, if at all possible). If it CAN clip through things, like a laser transceiver, it allows placing a cheap small gun in a small turret outside, and have the gun internals sit in a very thickly armored and completely enclosed hull. The completely enclosed-bit is the problem for me there.

That was covered in the OP. If it can be done, these parts should only be functional on sub-objects.
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2018-01-10, 09:06 PM
Post: #7
RE: Ammunition hoists/Interturretconnector for APS and perhaps CRAM
It was, as Vorpalim stated, mentioned in the OP. I did however think of a cheat that will need to be dealt with: People could in theory build turrets that are in theory rotatable, but in practice either hit the walls or outright clip into them. Ammo hoists will then ensure movement... So I'd say that if this should ever be implemented, it should only be when the hoist either loses efficiency past a certain angle, to discourage clipped turrets, or have the game check whether the main subconstruct can move and if it can't; the ammo hoist won't work.

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2018-01-10, 09:32 PM
Post: #8
RE: Ammunition hoists/Interturretconnector for APS and perhaps CRAM
Or maybe just limit ammo transfer rate and angular velocity of such turret.
Most of barbettes on consisted of rotor containing ammo lifts and stator containing ammunition and gun powder bags.
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2018-01-11, 12:31 AM
Post: #9
RE: Ammunition hoists/Interturretconnector for APS and perhaps CRAM
I think the distance-based penalty is enough to prevent a thickly armored magazine, as long as the penalty is strong enough.

The thing is, that even a deeply buried magazine will eventually get shot.
The point with the higher turn speed is also invalid, as you can just place two 1axis turrets on top of each other to max out turn speed (which should be changed imho)

Also, if you want to, it is already possible to cheese the living hell out of almost every game mechanic, so one more shouldn't matter.

I have been experimenting a lot with mantlet-less gun turrets, and I would love to outsource some components to the parent construct

Once in a while I decide to do something stupid and try to perfect it. That is how some of my strongest designs were created.
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2018-01-11, 11:48 AM
Post: #10
RE: Ammunition hoists/Interturretconnector for APS and perhaps CRAM
Love this idea. I was thinking about to suggest something about that too.
That would really improve designs by having gauge increasers, coolers, recoil absorbers and rail parts on turret and autoloaders with clips in the hull. Now most turrets hide inside the hull partially and this space still counts as "empty" and gives a buoyancy with air pump. So it can be counted as a downside by not having this cheesy buoyancy because of having a turret with hoists.
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