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Any skilled airship biulders?
2017-12-22, 01:05 PM (This post was last modified: 2017-12-22 01:05 PM by ciaranhappy.)
Post: #1
Any skilled airship biulders?
So, I want to make a foray into aerial cruisers, basically my normal sea stuff just flying, and I dont really know how.
Im thinking doing a bit of a helicopter thrustercraft hybrid thingy with helium pumps maybe doing most of the work but I dunno.
Anyone good with this stuff have any wisdom for me?
(If only Lemming was still here, he was the master of these things)
For reference, I wanna build something like this:
[Image: wallpaper-544514.jpg]

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2017-12-22, 01:09 PM (This post was last modified: 2017-12-22 01:12 PM by Kaonicping.)
Post: #2
RE: Any skilled airship biulders?
(2017-12-22 01:05 PM)ciaranhappy Wrote:  So, I want to make a foray into aerial cruisers, basically my normal sea stuff just flying, and I dont really know how.
Im thinking doing a bit of a helicopter thrustercraft hybrid thingy with helium pumps maybe doing most of the work but I dunno.
Anyone good with this stuff have any wisdom for me?
(If only Lemming was still here, he was the master of these things)
For reference, I wanna build something like this:
[Image: wallpaper-544514.jpg]

Up-facing jets are the most powerful form of lift (especially CJEs), but you'll need something else like propellers as well to get you out of the water if you fall in.

I wouldn't recommend helium pumps since they're really weak and you need lots of empty space and light armour, whereas if you use up-facing jets you can use loads of HA and not have a single empty space and still stay airborne pretty easily.

I know quite a few people including myself and Lemming who tend to build obscenely heavy flying dakkamachines, but if you want a more realistic style you'll probably have to look elsewhere, perhaps someone from the GT CC team would be useful?

(2017-07-10 02:50 AM)Resolas Wrote:  Forward broadside is the best broadside
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2017-12-22, 01:11 PM (This post was last modified: 2017-12-22 01:15 PM by ciaranhappy.)
Post: #3
RE: Any skilled airship biulders?
(2017-12-22 01:09 PM)Kaonicping Wrote:  Up-facing jets are the most powerful form of lift (especially CJEs), but you'll need something else like propellers as well to get you out of the water if you fall in.

I wouldn't recommend helium pumps since they're really weak and you need lots of empty space and light armour, whereas if you use up-facing jets you can use loads of HA and not have a single empty space and still stay airborne pretty easily.

I see, im likely to still have some helium pumps since I dont plan for anything made of pure metal or anything, mostly wood and alloy, but I will defently use jets facing up to keep it flying.
Infact a lot of why I wanna do this is incase Lemming comes back, since we used to put our stuff against each other a bunch and he always won, I kinda wanna get back at him.

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2017-12-22, 01:46 PM
Post: #4
RE: Any skilled airship biulders?
Using helium pumps provides a bit of free lift, so it doesn't ever hurt to add them in open spaces, but jets are always gonna be the main source of lift, unless you want to dedicate a lot of room to internal dediblades.

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2017-12-22, 01:49 PM
Post: #5
RE: Any skilled airship biulders?
(2017-12-22 01:46 PM)MizarLuke Wrote:  Using helium pumps provides a bit of free lift, so it doesn't ever hurt to add them in open spaces, but jets are always gonna be the main source of lift, unless you want to dedicate a lot of room to internal dediblades.

Exactly how much room would dediblades take?

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2017-12-22, 01:56 PM
Post: #6
RE: Any skilled airship biulders?
(2017-12-22 01:49 PM)ciaranhappy Wrote:  
(2017-12-22 01:46 PM)MizarLuke Wrote:  Using helium pumps provides a bit of free lift, so it doesn't ever hurt to add them in open spaces, but jets are always gonna be the main source of lift, unless you want to dedicate a lot of room to internal dediblades.

Exactly how much room would dediblades take?

A lot less than helium pumps if you use motor drive 10 (and you should). They're second best after jets and they have the nice property that they can get you out of the water by themselves.

tbh there's no reason to use helium unless you can't stand the noise the dediblades make or you don't want them internal.

As an example my biggest ever vehicle needed ~11x11x5 block of them to lift a giant 22k block airship that had a minimum of metal/HA/gap and metal/HA/HA in many places. It only used about 25k power.

(2017-07-10 02:50 AM)Resolas Wrote:  Forward broadside is the best broadside
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2017-12-22, 01:58 PM
Post: #7
RE: Any skilled airship biulders?
(2017-12-22 01:56 PM)Kaonicping Wrote:  
(2017-12-22 01:49 PM)ciaranhappy Wrote:  
(2017-12-22 01:46 PM)MizarLuke Wrote:  Using helium pumps provides a bit of free lift, so it doesn't ever hurt to add them in open spaces, but jets are always gonna be the main source of lift, unless you want to dedicate a lot of room to internal dediblades.

Exactly how much room would dediblades take?

A lot less than helium pumps if you use motor drive 10 (and you should). They're second best after jets and they have the nice property that they can get you out of the water by themselves.

tbh there's no reason to use helium unless you can't stand the noise the dediblades make or you don't want them internal.

As an example my biggest ever vehicle needed ~11x11x5 block of them to lift a giant 22k block airship that had a minimum of metal/HA/gap and metal/HA/HA in many places. It only used about 25k power.

Ok so, Im now thinking using helium pumps in compartments (I plan on having an interior, since having my airships being ornate sounds fun to me) and having dediblades at various points, with the thrusters at the bottom too.
I will keep the CoM in the middle of the ship to keep it stable. (Thats how it works, right?)

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2017-12-22, 02:10 PM
Post: #8
RE: Any skilled airship biulders?
(2017-12-22 01:58 PM)ciaranhappy Wrote:  
(2017-12-22 01:56 PM)Kaonicping Wrote:  
(2017-12-22 01:49 PM)ciaranhappy Wrote:  
(2017-12-22 01:46 PM)MizarLuke Wrote:  Using helium pumps provides a bit of free lift, so it doesn't ever hurt to add them in open spaces, but jets are always gonna be the main source of lift, unless you want to dedicate a lot of room to internal dediblades.

Exactly how much room would dediblades take?

A lot less than helium pumps if you use motor drive 10 (and you should). They're second best after jets and they have the nice property that they can get you out of the water by themselves.

tbh there's no reason to use helium unless you can't stand the noise the dediblades make or you don't want them internal.

As an example my biggest ever vehicle needed ~11x11x5 block of them to lift a giant 22k block airship that had a minimum of metal/HA/gap and metal/HA/HA in many places. It only used about 25k power.

Ok so, Im now thinking using helium pumps in compartments (I plan on having an interior, since having my airships being ornate sounds fun to me) and having dediblades at various points, with the thrusters at the bottom too.
I will keep the CoM in the middle of the ship to keep it stable. (Thats how it works, right?)

If you want compartments and a walkable interior anyway, then you might as well put helium pumps in any enclosed sections. If you make enough dediblades you can probably forgo thrusters on the bottom entirely which will help with survivability, but if you find you don't have enough room for more dediblades (again, make sure they are all motor drive 10, always up 1.0) then you can slap some thrusters on the bottom.

In order for it to be stable all you really need is yaw, pitch and roll thrusters and the right PID settings, but ideally you want your lift force and forward propulsion force to both act on lines that go through the CoM.

(2017-07-10 02:50 AM)Resolas Wrote:  Forward broadside is the best broadside
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2017-12-22, 02:12 PM (This post was last modified: 2017-12-22 02:12 PM by ciaranhappy.)
Post: #9
RE: Any skilled airship biulders?
(2017-12-22 02:10 PM)Kaonicping Wrote:  
(2017-12-22 01:58 PM)ciaranhappy Wrote:  
(2017-12-22 01:56 PM)Kaonicping Wrote:  
(2017-12-22 01:49 PM)ciaranhappy Wrote:  
(2017-12-22 01:46 PM)MizarLuke Wrote:  Using helium pumps provides a bit of free lift, so it doesn't ever hurt to add them in open spaces, but jets are always gonna be the main source of lift, unless you want to dedicate a lot of room to internal dediblades.

Exactly how much room would dediblades take?

A lot less than helium pumps if you use motor drive 10 (and you should). They're second best after jets and they have the nice property that they can get you out of the water by themselves.

tbh there's no reason to use helium unless you can't stand the noise the dediblades make or you don't want them internal.

As an example my biggest ever vehicle needed ~11x11x5 block of them to lift a giant 22k block airship that had a minimum of metal/HA/gap and metal/HA/HA in many places. It only used about 25k power.

Ok so, Im now thinking using helium pumps in compartments (I plan on having an interior, since having my airships being ornate sounds fun to me) and having dediblades at various points, with the thrusters at the bottom too.
I will keep the CoM in the middle of the ship to keep it stable. (Thats how it works, right?)

If you want compartments and a walkable interior anyway, then you might as well put helium pumps in any enclosed sections. If you make enough dediblades you can probably forgo thrusters on the bottom entirely which will help with survivability, but if you find you don't have enough room for more dediblades (again, make sure they are all motor drive 10, always up 1.0) then you can slap some thrusters on the bottom.

In order for it to be stable all you really need is yaw, pitch and roll thrusters and the right PID settings, but ideally you want your lift force and forward propulsion force to both act on lines that go through the CoM.
Not really sure how to do PID, I suspect this thing wont fly that well once im finished but ill try.
I can probably keep the thrust and lift all in line with CoM however.

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2017-12-22, 02:18 PM (This post was last modified: 2017-12-22 02:18 PM by Kaonicping.)
Post: #10
RE: Any skilled airship biulders?
(2017-12-22 02:12 PM)ciaranhappy Wrote:  Not really sure how to do PID, I suspect this thing wont fly that well once im finished but ill try.
I can probably keep the thrust and lift all in line with CoM however.

If you have the thrust and lift in line with the CoM you can use just a small amount of roll and pitch thrusters which will keep it relatively stable anyway.

With PIDs I usually set the first proportional thing (can't remember what it's called) to about 0.080 to 0.160 depending on how strong my thrusters are and then put the integral time to about 40 and the derivative time to about 0.1. Then you slowly decrease the integral time so that the angle (pitch or roll) is approximately what it should be, and then you increase the derivative time slowly to smooth out any wobbles. If it gets saturated too often at this point, you decrease the proportional thing a bit.

(2017-07-10 02:50 AM)Resolas Wrote:  Forward broadside is the best broadside
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