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Increase material cost of all weapons and fuel
2017-12-19, 04:11 PM
Post: #11
RE: Increase material cost of all weapons and fuel
Well in general I'd like the resource gain to be hogged by a factor of two (at the very least) AND to have the AI use resource zones + a bonus modifier for their resource generation. Otherwise this suggestion is more a handicap than a balancing act.

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2017-12-19, 04:19 PM
Post: #12
RE: Increase material cost of all weapons and fuel
(2017-12-19 03:45 PM)MizarLuke Wrote:  +1, though I think it may be best to reduce it to ~2x cost for weapons, and 2-4x for fuel. Keep in mind that this will be negative towards the player, since enemy ships will spawn at the same rate, while the player will need to pay 2-3x as much for certain essential parts. I think it would be a nice change for adventures too, meaning that you don't pack your ships or aircraft even more full of weapons every time you get some resource, encouraging building armor and such.

Keep in mind that 3x cost doesn't mean people use 1/3 the weapons, just that it'll be somewhere between 33%-100% of the current value.
IMO 2x cost wouldn't be a significant shift in armor-weapon ratios.

Yep, campaign resource zones could be buffed.
Experienced people can plow through anyway with a 10K rammer so could even go wild with 3x growth.
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2017-12-22, 12:12 AM
Post: #13
RE: Increase material cost of all weapons and fuel
This seems like a way to frustrate people into abandoning the game.

Material and fuel usage only really affect the player. As i understand it AI controlled factions in no way use or rely on resource zones to "build" their vehicles. The rate at which enemies spawn is influenced by how you set up your campaign at the start and can change at a later time.

Doing this without creating a system that would also influence the AI controlled factions would be a massive punishment to the player in an already complex game that can be quite punishing to play in the first place.
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2017-12-22, 02:49 AM (This post was last modified: 2017-12-22 03:48 AM by Richard Dastardly.)
Post: #14
RE: Increase material cost of all weapons and fuel
This would wreck volume restricted campaign balance without an attempt to apply it to AI factions, straight up player handicap.

Encouraging higher volume and block count builds for empty space and more efficient engines is great in theory, but the current game engine has other ideas.

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2017-12-22, 03:10 AM
Post: #15
RE: Increase material cost of all weapons and fuel
I would like this, only if shields were FUCKING REMOVED. I'm sick of needing shielded craft to fight anything past OW. I prefer sleeker modern designs. Not forward broadside and shield spamgun META

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2017-12-22, 03:50 AM (This post was last modified: 2017-12-22 05:20 AM by Richard Dastardly.)
Post: #16
RE: Increase material cost of all weapons and fuel
(2017-12-22 03:10 AM)Combatsmithen Wrote:  I would like this, only if shields were FUCKING REMOVED. I'm sick of needing shielded craft to fight anything past OW. I prefer sleeker modern designs. Not forward broadside and shield spamgun META

Reducing firerate of high-calibre APS & an overall damage reduction would be needed to remove shields, or we can just blow straight through vessels even with supposedly reduced numbers of weapons. Frankly all increasing costs a little would do for my Neter playstyle is make me sit around a bit more, I already spend 85% of a game fighting fully reinforced tiles so there's no urgency to move. For Ashes or anything else volume limited it'd be a considerable annoyance and rather unbalanced, without adding anything whatsoever other than more shields.

You want something that would make a difference? add weapon heating that'd naturally cap fire rate based on propellant burn /s ( this way small stuff is still capable of reasonable RoF ) , and then make shield emitters cheaper to run but cost five figures ( or at least high four figures ). When allround shielding costs the same as a ship, then you're really going to think hard about them.

Poke my boat! mostly pre-2.0 learning & catalogue thread - Update: Heavy & light tanks 07/04/18 for 2.1. 6 ships made 2.0 aware. If it's not AotE I can't do it regularily - sea -> post processing -> eyestrain.
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2017-12-22, 12:33 PM (This post was last modified: 2017-12-22 12:34 PM by draba.)
Post: #17
RE: Increase material cost of all weapons and fuel
(2017-12-22 12:12 AM)Full_Metal_Jacket Wrote:  Material and fuel usage only really affect the player. As i understand it AI controlled factions in no way use or rely on resource zones to "build" their vehicles. The rate at which enemies spawn is influenced by how you set up your campaign at the start and can change at a later time.
(2017-12-22 02:49 AM)Richard Dastardly Wrote:  This would wreck volume restricted campaign balance without an attempt to apply it to AI factions, straight up player handicap.

Just buff resource zone rates on lower difficulties and nothing changes for newbies. On the higher end nothing changes again, godly is already easy enough.
I think filling everything with weapons/engines being optimal is a problem with the game mechanics, it'd be silly to ignore just because people refuse to lower the difficulty slider.

(2017-12-22 03:50 AM)Richard Dastardly Wrote:  Reducing firerate of high-calibre APS & an overall damage reduction would be needed to remove shields, or we can just blow straight through vessels even with supposedly reduced numbers of weapons. Frankly all increasing costs a little would do for my Neter playstyle is make me sit around a bit more, I already spend 85% of a game fighting fully reinforced tiles so there's no urgency to move. For Ashes or anything else volume limited it'd be a considerable annoyance and rather unbalanced, without adding anything whatsoever other than more shields.

You want something that would make a difference? add weapon heating that'd naturally cap fire rate based on propellant burn /s ( this way small stuff is still capable of reasonable RoF ) , and then make shield emitters cheaper to run but cost five figures ( or at least high four figures ). When allround shielding costs the same as a ship, then you're really going to think hard about them.

APS damage can't be reduced too much without dicking over penetration numbers. Firerate/weapon cost is where there's more leeway, linear cooling was planned but Nick didn't want it in the end.
Even if it was in and weapons would be a bit weaker/volume, if cost density is the sameish as structure everything will be filled up.
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2017-12-25, 10:59 PM
Post: #18
RE: Increase material cost of all weapons and fuel
(2017-12-22 12:33 PM)draba Wrote:  Even if it was in and weapons would be a bit weaker/volume, if cost density is the sameish as structure everything will be filled up.

I'm unclear on why everything being filled up is a problem.

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2017-12-26, 11:57 AM
Post: #19
RE: Increase material cost of all weapons and fuel
Why no one mentions about ridiculously light blocks?
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2017-12-26, 01:44 PM (This post was last modified: 2017-12-26 01:45 PM by Zijkhal.)
Post: #20
RE: Increase material cost of all weapons and fuel
(2017-12-25 10:59 PM)TheShadowKick Wrote:  
(2017-12-22 12:33 PM)draba Wrote:  Even if it was in and weapons would be a bit weaker/volume, if cost density is the sameish as structure everything will be filled up.

I'm unclear on why everything being filled up is a problem.

everything being filled up is a symptom of the current meta: If you have empty space, you're better off putting some extra engines / fuel / weapons down, and more / stronger shields than leave those empty spaces for anti-heat, anti-hesh and anti-HE purposes. Or alternatively, making your craft smaller by eliminating those empty spaces to make them harder to hit.

IMO, power required for propulsion parts should also be increased. It would cut down on superheavy craft floating effortlessly thanks to upwards facing propellers, and make the cost of speed even more noticeable. I'd also introduce a lowish speed cap for dediblades (80-100 m/s). (for anyone looking for an IRL excuse, props are only efficient at low speeds)

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