Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 1 Votes - 4 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Rifled barrel
2017-12-15, 02:26 AM
Post: #1
Rifled barrel
Simple concept for advanced cannons.
A rifled barrel doubles the accuracy bonus versus a normal barrel, but every 1m of rifled barrel lowers muzzle velocity by 5% because ‘friction’. A 4m rifled barrel would lower shell velocity 20% but take an accuracy from something like 0.6 to 0.45 over a normal barrel.

Why add this? So slower shells can receive an accuracy bonus without having a massively long barrel. The velocity change would be detrimental to shell AP and time to target of course.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-12-15, 04:35 AM
Post: #2
RE: Rifled barrel
I can see this being feusable, though I always assumed advanced cannon barrels where rifles anyway.
I like the idea.

[Image: 6Vp76mI.png]

[Image: 76561198088023049.png]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-12-15, 04:38 AM
Post: #3
RE: Rifled barrel
This is an unrealistically high penalty. Actually getting a somewhat usable muzzle velocity with gunpowder only is quite hard in the first place. Accuracy in advanced cannons is also punishingly poor without spaghetti noodle barrels for even the smallest of guns as well.

First, muzzle velocity per gunpowder section and accuracy per normal gun barrel need increased To make this anywhere near useful.

There should be a .1%-.5% decrease per meter of rifle ed barrel instead. Accuracy increase should be 2-2.5 times increase and a higher cost as well.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-12-15, 04:44 AM
Post: #4
RE: Rifled barrel
(2017-12-15 04:38 AM)Full_Metal_Jacket Wrote:  This is an unrealistically high penalty. Actually getting a somewhat usable muzzle velocity with gunpowder only is quite hard in the first place. Accuracy in advanced cannons is also punishingly poor without spaghetti noodle barrels for even the smallest of guns as well.

First, muzzle velocity per gunpowder section and accuracy per normal gun barrel need increased To make this anywhere near useful.

There should be a .1%-.5% decrease per meter of rifle ed barrel instead. Accuracy increase should be 2-2.5 times increase and a higher cost as well.

I agree.
The original penalty was a bit much.
This here works better.
I also feel like rifles barrels should be a unit heavier then the common barrel, since peaple are more likely to replace all there barrels with them otherwise, and that would be easy if there weight was that of the standard barrel.

[Image: 6Vp76mI.png]

[Image: 76561198088023049.png]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-12-15, 04:56 AM
Post: #5
RE: Rifled barrel
(2017-12-15 04:44 AM)ciaranhappy Wrote:  
(2017-12-15 04:38 AM)Full_Metal_Jacket Wrote:  

I agree.
The original penalty was a bit much.
This here works better.
I also feel like rifles barrels should be a unit heavier then the common barrel, since peaple are more likely to replace all there barrels with them otherwise, and that would be easy if there weight was that of the standard barrel.

A slight increase in weight would be good as well. 25-30% heavier or have separate penalties.

For instance, they could take longer to repair once destroyed or cost quite a bit more material in the first place.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-12-15, 05:04 AM
Post: #6
RE: Rifled barrel
(2017-12-15 04:56 AM)Full_Metal_Jacket Wrote:  
(2017-12-15 04:44 AM)ciaranhappy Wrote:  
(2017-12-15 04:38 AM)Full_Metal_Jacket Wrote:  

I agree.
The original penalty was a bit much.
This here works better.
I also feel like rifles barrels should be a unit heavier then the common barrel, since peaple are more likely to replace all there barrels with them otherwise, and that would be easy if there weight was that of the standard barrel.

A slight increase in weight would be good as well. 25-30% heavier or have separate penalties.

For instance, they could take longer to repair once destroyed or cost quite a bit more material in the first place.

I can see that working.
Ill look up to see if theres any real life downsides to rifling.
The only one I aware of the top of my head is if the shell or bullet or whatever your firing is spinning too fast it can damage the bullet considerably.
After looking all I found was what I already know and stated above this line.
Quote:Excessive rotational speed can exceed the bullet's designed limits and the resulting centrifugal force can cause the bullet to disintegrate radially during flight
(From wikipedia, but I already knew it from other sources so its likely correct)

So im thinking we could have a max shell accuracy boost from number of rifle barrels before the shell just stops working correctly?

[Image: 6Vp76mI.png]

[Image: 76561198088023049.png]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-12-15, 05:59 AM
Post: #7
RE: Rifled barrel
(2017-12-15 05:04 AM)ciaranhappy Wrote:  I can see that working.
Ill look up to see if theres any real life downsides to rifling.
The only one I aware of the top of my head is if the shell or bullet or whatever your firing is spinning too fast it can damage the bullet considerably.
After looking all I found was what I already know and stated above this line.
Quote:Excessive rotational speed can exceed the bullet's designed limits and the resulting centrifugal force can cause the bullet to disintegrate radially during flight
(From wikipedia, but I already knew it from other sources so its likely correct)

So im thinking we could have a max shell accuracy boost from number of rifle barrels before the shell just stops working correctly?

That's not really how it works. The rotational speed of a projectile is controlled almost entirely by the twist rate of the rifling. Basically, how many inches/cm of barrel per 1 full rotation of the rifling itself. This is denoted as something like 1:14" or one rotation per 14 inches of barrel. There are a huge number of factors that influence the optimum rifling rate such as projectile velocity(influenced heavily by weight), projectile length(also has a connection with weight, longer projectile means more material=more weight), projectile weight itself, and many other factors. There are some rifling twist rates that are more universal than others as to the variety of bullets that can be accurately fired.

Longer Projectile need a faster spin than shorter projectiles due to them being quite a bit more unstable. Also, it is extremely rare for bullets to approach anywhere near exploding due to spin outside of extreme manufacturing defects. Ordinary rifle bullets often spin at more than 100,000RPM anyway, so spin shouldn't be an issue.

I think a more realistic penalty would be to force a specific shell shell length for individual guns defined by the first shell loaded. Shells with any other variation in length or velocity would be progressively more inaccurate as length/velocity difference increased. You wouldn't be able to use a "universal" gun that was only concerned with muzzle velocity like is possible now, but be more constrained to what battleships had to deal with.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-12-15, 06:10 AM
Post: #8
RE: Rifled barrel
(2017-12-15 05:59 AM)Full_Metal_Jacket Wrote:  
(2017-12-15 05:04 AM)ciaranhappy Wrote:  I can see that working.
Ill look up to see if theres any real life downsides to rifling.
The only one I aware of the top of my head is if the shell or bullet or whatever your firing is spinning too fast it can damage the bullet considerably.
After looking all I found was what I already know and stated above this line.
Quote:Excessive rotational speed can exceed the bullet's designed limits and the resulting centrifugal force can cause the bullet to disintegrate radially during flight
(From wikipedia, but I already knew it from other sources so its likely correct)

So im thinking we could have a max shell accuracy boost from number of rifle barrels before the shell just stops working correctly?

That's not really how it works. The rotational speed of a projectile is controlled almost entirely by the twist rate of the rifling. Basically, how many inches/cm of barrel per 1 full rotation of the rifling itself. This is denoted as something like 1:14" or one rotation per 14 inches of barrel. There are a huge number of factors that influence the optimum rifling rate such as projectile velocity(influenced heavily by weight), projectile length(also has a connection with weight, longer projectile means more material=more weight), projectile weight itself, and many other factors. There are some rifling twist rates that are more universal than others as to the variety of bullets that can be accurately fired.

Longer Projectile need a faster spin than shorter projectiles due to them being quite a bit more unstable. Also, it is extremely rare for bullets to approach anywhere near exploding due to spin outside of extreme manufacturing defects. Ordinary rifle bullets often spin at more than 100,000RPM anyway, so spin shouldn't be an issue.

I think a more realistic penalty would be to force a specific shell shell length for individual guns defined by the first shell loaded. Shells with any other variation in length or velocity would be progressively more inaccurate as length/velocity difference increased. You wouldn't be able to use a "universal" gun that was only concerned with muzzle velocity like is possible now, but be more constrained to what battleships had to deal with.

That does certainly make sense as a penalty. I like it.

[Image: 6Vp76mI.png]

[Image: 76561198088023049.png]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-12-15, 06:50 AM (This post was last modified: 2017-12-15 07:01 AM by Full_Metal_Jacket.)
Post: #9
RE: Rifled barrel
(2017-12-15 06:10 AM)ciaranhappy Wrote:  That does certainly make sense as a penalty. I like it.

With that constraint I think it would be a bit more fair to change the muzzle velocity penalty to be either a one time penalty that would have its effect applied over the total barrel length or do away with the penalty entirely. Something like a 1-5% max reduction in muzzle velocity over the base. I did a bit of the math, and the velocity reduction per barrel can still stack up pretty quickly over just a flat penatly.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2017-12-15, 07:25 AM
Post: #10
RE: Rifled barrel
http://www.fromthedepthsgame.com/forum/s...?tid=28445 , glad someone else agreed. I'm not sure you really need to get quite so complicated as the post a couple up from here though, just have some method of picking twist & an ideal twist for a particular shell given by the ammo processor ( have a look at the labels in the ammo processor sometime btw ) - if you fire a shell that wants a different twist to be ideal, then take the accuracy hit.

As I said in my own thread, I'd like the rail assist accuracy pulled if this happens though, that is a rather odd idea unless the rail magnets are spinning the shell up... either that or you can have one or the other.

Poke my boat! mostly pre-2.0 learning & catalogue thread - Update: Heavy & light tanks 12/01/18 for 2.1. 6 ships made 2.0 aware. If it's not AotE I can't do it regularily - sea -> post processing -> eyestrain.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)