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Missile overhaul: gauge, stronger missiles, penetrators (2.16)
2018-05-06, 09:16 PM
Post: #261
RE: Missile overhaul: gauge, stronger missiles, penetrators (2.15)
(2018-04-27 12:27 AM)RychschaX Wrote:  
(2018-04-24 12:31 PM)draba Wrote:  Yep, new ProtecTech tools made some changes that'd need coding to fix.
Since the next big official update is in sight and it'll be the missile overhaul I'm not updating the mod anymore.
2.13 ProtecTech + json editing should be enough to tide people over.

For ideas on additional changes I recommend this thread: http://www.fromthedepthsgame.com/forum/s...?tid=35314 .

IMO combined propulsion isn't necessary as with current physics even deepish subs can just eject missiles out of the water, where thrusters take over.
Making thrusters work underwater at 10-20% efficiency could also work, just didn't see the need.
Combining props/thrusters on the same missile is almost always a really bad idea(with FtD physics) so didn't want to encourage it.
I still can't seem to get things working. I have protectech tools 2.13, and I've added the line in the json for the ftd version. Which version of the missile expansion am I supposed to be using? I have the workshop version right now, but it does the thing with the disappearing menus whenever I mouse over anything.



That sounds more like a conflict with another mod. REmove all mods but the ones for this missile expansion and try again.
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2018-06-06, 07:34 PM
Post: #262
RE: Missile overhaul: gauge, stronger missiles, penetrators (2.15)
(2018-05-06 08:08 PM)blariviere Wrote:  One thing I want to see is at least one size bigger missiles. Like the Large launcher but 3 by 3 blocks, double the cost and firepower of the large missiles. With that we would have full scale ICBM missiles, the large missiles are a bit too small and arent powerful enough to pull that off.

Jesus...
What are you trying to kill?
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2018-06-07, 05:48 PM (This post was last modified: 2018-06-07 05:49 PM by Fernir.)
Post: #263
RE: Missile overhaul: gauge, stronger missiles, penetrators (2.15)
(2018-06-06 07:34 PM)Exocet Wrote:  
(2018-05-06 08:08 PM)blariviere Wrote:  One thing I want to see is at least one size bigger missiles. Like the Large launcher but 3 by 3 blocks, double the cost and firepower of the large missiles. With that we would have full scale ICBM missiles, the large missiles are a bit too small and arent powerful enough to pull that off.

Jesus...
What are you trying to kill?

Everything in "near" vicinity, I guess.
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2018-06-27, 06:44 PM
Post: #264
RE: Missile overhaul: gauge, stronger missiles, penetrators (2.15)
having truble with a fatal error help
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2018-07-10, 04:25 PM (This post was last modified: 2018-07-10 04:35 PM by BioPhoenix.)
Post: #265
RE: Missile overhaul: gauge, stronger missiles, penetrators (2.15)
What kills this mod for me, personally, is the fact that because guidance activation delay has been extended to all forms of guidance rather than just guidance-assisting algorithms, the One Turn/APN or Radar/APN methods for making extended range VLS missiles no longer function. At all. Even the One Turn is affected by this change to guidance activation delay behavior. This mod does add a lot of things I like, missile gauge especially, along with some things I don't really like but can live with, such as the changes to thrusters, but quite frankly the change to the guidance activation delay makes this mod unplayable for me. All missiles in this mod now have to either be rail mounted (which can't use internal space) or not use APN (which sharply limits range).

And using combined missile/torpedoes in vanilla works just fine, by the way. It works especially well with laser-guided missiles and is practically a requirement for ship-to-ship beam riders. I don't know why you think it doesn't work well.
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2018-07-10, 08:46 PM
Post: #266
RE: Missile overhaul: gauge, stronger missiles, penetrators (2.16)
Updated to 2.16.
If the missile has one turn APN and TPG won't activate until it gets within ~3° of the original turn target.

(2018-07-10 04:25 PM)BioPhoenix Wrote:  And using combined missile/torpedoes in vanilla works just fine, by the way. It works especially well with laser-guided missiles and is practically a requirement for ship-to-ship beam riders. I don't know why you think it doesn't work well.

In vanilla torpedos need 1 fuel and 2-4 props, missiles 1 variable thruster and fuel tank spam.
If you combine the 2 you add ~2 blocks, that's:
  • 8 sec extra reloadtime, same damage
  • more space and more resources
  • lower agility/speed
  • Thumper scaling is silly, 5m thumpers have 300 hp while 8m only 400. So overall less targets and less total hp.
Hitting with dedicated missiles/torps is already a big enough "if".
Unless you waste 3+ blocks speed differential will be pretty small against moderately fast things and LAMS/CIWS gets ridiculously good.

Overall yes, like all weapons in the game combined propulsion can work against bad targets.
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2018-07-12, 04:13 AM
Post: #267
RE: Missile overhaul: gauge, stronger missiles, penetrators (2.16)
(2018-07-10 08:46 PM)draba Wrote:  Updated to 2.16.
If the missile has one turn APN and TPG won't activate until it gets within ~3° of the original turn target.
Sincerely, thank you. I'll be testing it out next time I play.

(2018-07-10 08:46 PM)draba Wrote:  In vanilla torpedos need 1 fuel and 2-4 props, missiles 1 variable thruster and fuel tank spam.
If you combine the 2 you add ~2 blocks, that's:
  • 8 sec extra reloadtime, same damage
  • more space and more resources
  • lower agility/speed
  • Thumper scaling is silly, 5m thumpers have 300 hp while 8m only 400. So overall less targets and less total hp.
Hitting with dedicated missiles/torps is already a big enough "if".
Unless you waste 3+ blocks speed differential will be pretty small against moderately fast things and LAMS/CIWS gets ridiculously good.

Overall yes, like all weapons in the game combined propulsion can work against bad targets.
In my experience, you don't need that many more tanks or props. VT missiles can actually be quite fast and respectably ranged, even with relatively few fuel tanks, with the help of strong ejection and APN, torpedoes don't always need that much speed, and propellers boost ejection power to boot. As with most things in FTD, it's a tradeoff. Combining your missiles with your torpedoes makes them substantially less efficient against any single target type, but also lets them engage more categories of target and saves on launcher space.
You're also definitely not wrong about thumpers, though. Laser-guided missiles and beam riders just have more of a tendency to go in the water than any other missiles I've seen.
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2018-07-14, 05:41 AM (This post was last modified: 2018-07-14 05:42 AM by BioPhoenix.)
Post: #268
RE: Missile overhaul: gauge, stronger missiles, penetrators (2.16)
I really quite like the concept of this mod and I like enough of the changes to it that I'm going to go through some bugs I've found and some other concerns I have with the mod.

First, bugs.
  • The APN, TPG, and One Turn parts do not show up in any category of missile parts. To find them it is necessary to view all parts; they are at the bottom. I know there's a bug here somewhere because if they were supposed to be hidden they wouldn't even show up in that list.
  • The APN module is severely broken and does not work as intended, especially with regards to gliding bombs. APN-guided missiles don't seem to be able to face in the same direction as their motion is in. Indeed, I've seen small missile gliding bombs actually fly sideways while orbiting a flying target as if they were magnet mines. In contrast to vanilla's APN guidance, gliding bombs almost never hit their target on the first pass and typically end up in the water against ship targets.
  • Even with the changes to the activation behavior of APN and TPG with respect to the One Turn, this would still leaves radar guided and laser designated missiles, as well as remote missiles, in the lurch with regards to APN guidance. A chief benefit of these missile types is their lack of need for a One Turn to lock onto targets when vertically launched. However as is they cannot turn until the APN has already activated and therefore cannot do this. However, despite me saying this, it appears that APN guided laser guided missiles still function. I believe this relates to the second bug listed - APN guided missiles still seem to point directly towards their nominal aim point rather than
  • The magnet part tends to drag missiles of any size backwards regardless of its position on the missile. The magnet's force also seems to be extremely high. That may be intentional now that mines can be detected, but it
  • The penetrator module has the wrong description on small missiles. (It's disabled there so this is a minor bug, but still a bug.)

Now my general concerns.
  • While the ability to set missile controllers' nominal projectile speed and enable or disable arcing has been a godsend for the suboptimal but very fun option of grenades (ejector-thrown mines, with or without a magnet), the nerf to ejectors has left them with about half the range they once had by parabolic range estimation. This also affects ejector-propelled APN-guided glide bombs (or glide missiles) but I'm less sure as to what degree as the APN module is currently not functioning properly in this mod.
  • The remote control module, while awesome, also occupies an identical niche to the laser designator receiver. It has all the advantages of the LDR except that it doesn't let another vehicle choose the missile's target; it also has none of the beam inaccuracy at long range or vulnerability to smoke. This may be as intended.
  • The changes to flak's behavior may have effects outside of the intended anti-missile role - with its current stats it's strictly better than HE in some ways.
  • Missiles seem to be, strictly, the best weapon system in this mod, with comparable power to either cannon type and more accuracy.

There might be more things, as I'm still appreciating and exploring this mod. If there are I'll mention.

I also have a personal concern, though you may safely disregard it: I have no problems with the number of thrusters or propellers on a missile being restricted, but I'd be happier if it didn't have to be in the far back. (Even on real world missiles such as the Tomahawk, there are fins further back than the engine itself, with a tube between the combustion chamber and the back nozzle.) Also, for personal reasons already stated I'd like it if there could be both a torpedo propeller and a thruster, or, equally viably, some form of thruster that works in both air and water at the cost of efficiency.
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2018-07-14, 09:01 AM
Post: #269
RE: Missile overhaul: gauge, stronger missiles, penetrators (2.16)
I have problem FtD load ProtecTechTools fine, no errors in main screen, but mod not work. I not seen mod menu in build menu. Please help me.
Log attached.


Attached File(s)
.zip  output_log.zip (Size: 20.61 KB / Downloads: 1)
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2018-07-14, 09:48 AM
Post: #270
RE: Missile overhaul: gauge, stronger missiles, penetrators (2.16)
(2018-07-14 09:01 AM)ULWE Wrote:  I have problem FtD load ProtecTechTools fine, no errors in main screen, but mod not work. I not seen mod menu in build menu. Please help me.
Log attached.

According to the log, the mod is disabled:
Code:
Mod in /From The Depths/Mods/Missile gauge, stronger missiles, penetrators 2.16 update is disabled, skipping plugin load.

You need to go into the FtD modding menu (which displays the list of all mods, including the CORE ones), and enable this mod from there.
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