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Various strange questions and answers about game mechanics
2017-09-05, 10:52 PM
Post: #31
RE: Alternative ways of getting power?
(2017-09-05 09:40 PM)BioPhoenix Wrote:  Here's an example of using laser rangefinders for active search since I was bored and wondered if it was indeed possible.

Thank you for your science!

From the Depths english playlist starts here, before that it's hungarian:
https://youtu.be/Ltdx0yVI9cA?list=PLImar...ZokVtdBa73

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2017-09-06, 04:37 AM (This post was last modified: 2017-09-06 04:41 AM by Richard Dastardly.)
Post: #32
RE: Alternative ways of getting power?
(2017-09-05 09:20 PM)Normal69 Wrote:  On capturing: maybe you feel that I am not the type of calculating the best components - I play this game for freedom and fun.
And it is infinitely enjoyable to jump on enemy units, and try to find the AI. Smile

I don't mind how you play, I just don't want to get involved in long conversations about material efficiency when the conversation thread is being undermined Smile that is unless you balance your campaign around having to keep up a capture rate just to fuel everything, which is something I must try one day - you can't just use a giant battleship to blow everything up at that point because you'll never get enough resource in. There are a bunch of ways to break the campaign - the first well known one is simply to use armed satellites, but I found another one was just to go off the edge of the map & launch strikes on faction HQs from there, it means fighting through very few tiles & you can move so fast they don't have time to reinforce much either. If you do that with armed satellites it's even worse, of course. So we do have to restrain ourselves in some way anyway...

Retroreflectors - that was the thing I always forget. IIRC they're quite accurate, too.

Poke my boat! mostly pre-2.0 learning & catalogue thread - Update: Heavy & light tanks 12/01/18 for 2.1. 6 ships made 2.0 aware. If it's not AotE I can't do it regularily - sea -> post processing -> eyestrain.
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2017-09-06, 05:34 AM
Post: #33
RE: Alternative ways of getting power?
At some point, all cheese will be fixed or severely changed. I doubt boarding will be as easy as it is now. Its a good idea to not relly on them because of that.

One day, your source will be cut. And you will have to play with fair resource income.

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2017-09-06, 06:15 AM (This post was last modified: 2017-09-06 06:25 AM by Normal69.)
Post: #34
RE: Alternative ways of getting power?
Richard Dastardly/BioPhoenix:
You mean retroreflectors work from underwater? Definitely will try.
I need those weird ideas. Wink

Breaking the campaign? No of course. Big Grin That would be boring.
Altough I tried the giant battleship thing in the past, old dear Ugly As Death, it's amorph body with the landing chicken-leg. The problem was it guzzled fuel, and drained my resources quick, even if it has material silos to keep a whole country's worth of them. Big Grin
That's why I put all those units in as enemies in my first campaign try, and went for being material conservative.
Now I can win a battle sometimes by outlasting the enemy, and going in for the kill when it uses up fuel/material.
I hope they start with full material containers, but can empty them - or do NPCs have infinite resources in battle?
That would be cheese, but not a big problem. I think they count the amount of their fuel - in material I am not so sure.

My main defense is a hell of a lot of long-range offense based on ammo-usage.
Backup defense is uning the terrain in my advantage - against most things it's enough, because I went for all-terrain vehicles, either persistently rolling on the ground whether it has sea over it or not, or airships which increase height in case of mountains.
I also like to pilot them, having the possibility to switch from air to underwater if encountering advanced cannon spawn.
All other ordance will get shot down by my cheap LAMS and anti missile missiles.
I also note where is my unit targeted mostly, and install there small, conservative shielding.
Anything gets thru that will be repaired cheaply - is it true that wood is exempt from armour stacking? Then I should use glass...

The armour I use is 1-2 layers of metal on a sparse supportive grid of heavy armour, fine tuning the shape with a layer of wood. Using anything heavier makes airships hard to keep in the air.

As for going around the map it never occurred to me - now that is rotten cheese for me.
Yepp I went thru the armed satellite thing as a resource base with missile spam and laser - now I only have the quick strategic recon satellite which has just 4 rockets, and a lot of enemies can shoot it down as it keeps around 1800 height. But I use it only to annoy and pull enemies. Smile

So yes, we have to restain ourselves to conserve fun, hard battles.

Oh, and do not read italics. Wink

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mrvecz! I've found the exact example about parts of conversation with you:
-I will go to the shop for some eggs. - Normal
-You cannot live on eggs alone! You will die! -Mrvecz
Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin
The example is stupid, but exactly how I feel.
I tried to refer to is as a negative viewpoint.
I believe you've met with so much of that stuff, that you believe something I am not.

Please, do not use this subroutine. It is stuck in an infinite loop.
If no other way, see all of my vids, and calm down. I play to use as few upkeep-resources as I can.

From the Depths english playlist starts here, before that it's hungarian:
https://youtu.be/Ltdx0yVI9cA?list=PLImar...ZokVtdBa73

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2017-09-06, 11:21 AM
Post: #35
RE: Alternative ways of getting power?
(2017-09-05 09:20 PM)Normal69 Wrote:  On capturing: maybe you feel that I am not the type of calculating the best components - I play this game for freedom and fun.
And it is infinitely enjoyable to jump on enemy units, and try to find the AI. Smile

Capturing is definitely one of the most fun parts of the campaign, even if it is OP. I used to really enjoy capturing DWG vehicles and retrofitting them to my liking. But it is pretty impossible to balance Neter with capturing in place since the amount of resources in the difference is huge.

(2017-09-05 09:20 PM)Normal69 Wrote:  I was sad when NPC got deleted, yes, they've induced lag, but capturing was much more enjoyable with them. I hope they will return in some form, maybe a simple weapon anti-personnel turret, because I liked to dodge, and use cover to grenade them.
If we take out everything which induces lag, then we should remove units, and have a walking simulator on sea. Big Grin

Yeah, I would have preferred it if Majyst just massively cut down on the number of NPCs in Neter vehicles rather than NPCs getting removed entirely. Anti-personnel turrets could be a good idea (all we need is a new type of LWC like the CIWS controller), but given how fragile the player is you would see a lot of ships with little miniguns that just annihilate you if you get in range. But without anti-personnel defences capturing is pretty OP.

(2017-09-05 09:20 PM)Normal69 Wrote:  For the other people here giving me pointers to evolve my building ability:
Yes, I know that you don't want to hurt me, my feelings, or my building style, just giving me useful info.
Yes, I feel that acting on your advices I will build better - but you overreacted, and began from a negative viewpoint, assuming the worst errors one can have.
Also I feel that you have the same abhorrence towards RTGs as I have against ammo makers. Big Grin

I don't have a particular dislike for RTGs; in fact I originally was quite happy when they were added since I liked the idea of paying once for power and not continuously. But I quickly learned they are not very powerful for their size and just a worse deal than other power sources. Nowadays, though, I care a great deal about the material cost of my units and also the strength of their LAMS, so RTGs are out of the question.

I originally preferred to avoid processors, as free, passive generation seemed more attractive to me, but since I was very keen on building small ammo barrels just couldn't supply the dakka I wanted to unleash, and now APS is a thing and I want to build 500mm machineguns, I'd need huge blocks of ammo to supply them, or just 30 or so ammo procs in the empty gaps I have left...

(2017-09-05 09:20 PM)Normal69 Wrote:  Don't worry, I have a certain good degree in unfuckwithability, and wont spend a night covering under the shower crying "why... why...". Big Grin
I just react to your plain words to provide feedback. Because if you were talking to me like that in real life, I would hit you with a stick. Wink
Use the emoticons more, that will convey more information beside dry text.
And remember, you are not my parents, and not my teachers, just advisors in a game I like a LOT. Smile
Even if you are intelligent, you can be more decent, and maybe that is a field you can evolve, like myself in engineering more effective units.

Maybe this is the essence of English humour... if I were to say the same things as I said to you to one of my friends IRL, they obviously wouldn't go and cry in a shower, but nor would they hit me with a stick... either they would accept my criticism as valid, or they would hit me with a savage comeback Big Grin. I have very little experience of foreign comedy but perhaps 'English humour' revolves more around poking fun at someone.

As for the emoticons, I instinctively want to put one at the end of every sentence, but it looks a bit weird so I usually cut down to one per post.

And no, it would be a bit odd for me to be your parent or teacher given how much younger I am than you... Tongue

(2017-09-05 09:20 PM)Normal69 Wrote:  I am lazy, and have no interest in fighting you, because that is boring.
Lets enjoy together a great game which I imagined when I was 14! (now I am 45)

Peace. Wink

(and see my emoticons!)

Perhaps your method of building is more enjoyable... I definitely found building for the Frigate Fracas a lot less tedious since I didn't have to configure any shields. But without meta-style defences, I cannot safely unleash enough dakka... Undecided

(2017-07-10 02:50 AM)Resolas Wrote:  Forward broadside is the best broadside
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2017-09-06, 11:27 AM (This post was last modified: 2017-09-06 11:29 AM by Kaonicping.)
Post: #36
RE: Alternative ways of getting power?
(2017-09-06 06:15 AM)Normal69 Wrote:  is it true that wood is exempt from armour stacking? Then I should use glass...

I heard that somewhere, but I'm not 100% sure it's true. Glass would look pretty cool, but it dies if you sneeze on it and any half-decent explosion with rip a huge chunk off in one go. The wiki says wood, metal LWA and stone all work but I think it's outdated since it doesn't mention HA and I'm almost 100% certain HA does work. LWA would definitely be light enough, but it would add a bit of cost (but probably would be well worth it), and with some buffed propulsion I think you could easily manage more metal.

(2017-09-06 06:15 AM)Normal69 Wrote:  The armour I use is 1-2 layers of metal on a sparse supportive grid of heavy armour, fine tuning the shape with a layer of wood. Using anything heavier makes airships hard to keep in the air.

Actually, if you use plenty of motor drive 10 dediblades or even better up-facing jets you can quite feasibly lift an HA brick. Tongue

(2017-07-10 02:50 AM)Resolas Wrote:  Forward broadside is the best broadside
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2017-09-06, 11:36 AM
Post: #37
RE: Alternative ways of getting power?
(2017-09-06 11:27 AM)Kaonicping Wrote:  
(2017-09-06 06:15 AM)Normal69 Wrote:  is it true that wood is exempt from armour stacking? Then I should use glass...

I heard that somewhere, but I'm not 100% sure it's true. Glass would look pretty cool, but it dies if you sneeze on it and any half-decent explosion with rip a huge chunk off in one go. The wiki says wood, metal LWA and stone all work but I think it's outdated since it doesn't mention HA and I'm almost 100% certain HA does work. LWA would definitely be light enough, but it would add a bit of cost (but probably would be well worth it), and with some buffed propulsion I think you could easily manage more metal.

(2017-09-06 06:15 AM)Normal69 Wrote:  The armour I use is 1-2 layers of metal on a sparse supportive grid of heavy armour, fine tuning the shape with a layer of wood. Using anything heavier makes airships hard to keep in the air.

Actually, if you use plenty of motor drive 10 dediblades or even better up-facing jets you can quite feasibly lift an HA brick. Tongue

Wood works, read where it says 'Structrually Sound', if it has that it stacks.

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2017-09-06, 02:01 PM
Post: #38
RE: Alternative ways of getting power?
(2017-09-06 06:15 AM)Normal69 Wrote:  Mrvecz! I've found the exact example about parts of conversation with you:
-I will go to the shop for some eggs. - Normal
-You cannot live on eggs alone! You will die! -Mrvecz
Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin
The example is stupid, but exactly how I feel.
I tried to refer to is as a negative viewpoint.
I believe you've met with so much of that stuff, that you believe something I am not.

Please, do not use this subroutine. It is stuck in an infinite loop.
If no other way, see all of my vids, and calm down. I play to use as few upkeep-resources as I can.

m8 i am not here to pick any fights, but since i am experienced player, i cannot say nothing if i see someone using exploits/cheese or very ineffective systems.

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2017-09-06, 03:42 PM
Post: #39
RE: Alternative ways of getting power?
(2017-09-06 11:21 AM)Kaonicping Wrote:  Maybe this is the essence of English humour... if I were to say the same things as I said to you to one of my friends IRL, they obviously wouldn't go and cry in a shower, but nor would they hit me with a stick... either they would accept my criticism as valid, or they would hit me with a savage comeback Big Grin. I have very little experience of foreign comedy but perhaps 'English humour' revolves more around poking fun at someone.

Oh for sure, I've met quite a number of people from outside um.. Commonwealth countries who've been a bit surprised at how abusive we are to each other - meanwhile we're just ragging on each other for fun & think nothing of it.

--

The only time I don't really worry about cheese is fighting SD, because they're naturally full of it anyway. Before that I won't arm anything in space, it's not like it was really hard to crush everyone else anyway before this half-finished rebalance. I only have concerns with the current game when it comes to getting established, given the effective nerf to small weapons & the DWG buff - aside from that the only change would be to use bigger guns.

Wood does stack yes - not a bad idea to use it on the inside of the outer layer of your ship, any HESH frags will have 3 AP then. I would prefer to use stone though, I think.

If you want some outlandish armour, try strategic antennae. The dishes have the same AC as metal, 100 less health, 1/4 the weight, and float Tongue The antenna itself looks sorta interesting too.

Poke my boat! mostly pre-2.0 learning & catalogue thread - Update: Heavy & light tanks 12/01/18 for 2.1. 6 ships made 2.0 aware. If it's not AotE I can't do it regularily - sea -> post processing -> eyestrain.
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2017-09-06, 04:30 PM
Post: #40
RE: Alternative ways of getting power?
Wowzies!
I'll go backwards:

"If you want some outlandish armour, try strategic antennae. The dishes have the same AC as metal, 100 less health, 1/4 the weight, and float Tongue The antenna itself looks sorta interesting too. "
I still have some vehicles aroud with small steam turbines as 42 inner armour / but I've also reported them as an error. Smile

"Wood does stack yes" - Then it is just fine - it isnt easy to rip off a wooden slope if it's backed up with metal and HA.

"m8 i am not here to pick any fights, but since i am experienced player, i cannot say nothing if i see someone using exploits/cheese or very ineffective systems." - Thank you for being understanding.

"Actually, if you use plenty of motor drive 10 dediblades or even better up-facing jets you can quite feasibly lift an HA brick." Big Grin - I prefer ion drives, not so powerful, but more versalite. I do dediblades because they can be better protected, and could be infinitely useful in various situations.

"Perhaps your method of building is more enjoyable... " - I've really enjoyed building Superbus and Samson, skip the description if it bores you:
-planned the big turrets first
-made a rough wireframe sketch of the hull
-put in the boxes for the turrets, and the turrets too
-checked balance, and installed a dediblade lift and PID-balance system (Superbus only)
-put in the ammo compartments on the back sides (on average they are missed by incoming fire as the unit already moved, and for backup) HA box with HA triangle lining inside, the explosion is contained that way
-put in the power-generation cube, HA lining on the outside, wood inside
-put in laser generation, ai, detection in different compartments
-put in fixed weapon systems which need to be inside the main body, like fíxed turrets and cram bombers
-re-checked the balance, put some batteries and motors to bring back
-check targeting and firepower
-cover it in metal on the main surfaces
-extend the HA grid under it so every 4m metal beam receives some HA under it, sprinkle it with surge protectors inside
-plug the small holes with HA bits
-install middle sized weapon system on the outside (mainly missiles and torps), and cover them with metal (providing air gaps on sensitive areas)
-place wood blocks where LAMS would be roughly, place material containers, repair equipment and misc inside, like dock holders, etc
-put in some more batteries+motors for bringing back mass point into the original position
-install propulsion, and propulsion based PID
-nicely cover it in wood, and put ERA slopes beside existing holes to prevent explosion flow-in
-install LAMS set 150m, and install tiny weapons
-paint, light, poster, pimp
-ready

"you would see a lot of ships with little miniguns that just annihilate you if you get in range" - I would have no problem with that. *fondly remembers manually targeting NPCs before attempting a capture, oh there was one more* Tongue

"As for the emoticons, I instinctively want to put one at the end of every sentence, but it looks a bit weird so I usually cut down to one per post. " - the same thing we do with our faces while talking - I am giving permission to be weird. Wink

"given how much younger I am than you... " - except if you travel with the Doctor Big Grin

"Capturing is definitely one of the most fun parts of the campaign, even if it is OP. I used to really enjoy capturing DWG vehicles and retrofitting them to my liking. But it is pretty impossible to balance Neter with capturing in place since the amount of resources in the difference is huge." - considering how much pain in the buttocks to hunt down some units...
Maybe nukes to blow up itself if too damaged is an option (as was in some 4x space strategy game).

I wonder about my resource consumption. There is a picture-series now about a fight in resource-limited designer.
I've begun with around 100000RP inside my containers, at the end it was around 27000RP, but a Desecrator was shooting at me from point blank range, and I've won the battle.
How good/bad is that?

have a good time, thanks for your answers!

From the Depths english playlist starts here, before that it's hungarian:
https://youtu.be/Ltdx0yVI9cA?list=PLImar...ZokVtdBa73

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