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Various strange questions and answers about game mechanics
2017-08-30, 09:58 PM (This post was last modified: 2017-09-07 04:12 PM by Normal69.)
Post: #1
Various strange questions and answers about game mechanics
As we all know, if you keep more resources, you can build more, or bigger units, so expand faster.
That is the main point why I am using RTGs.
And that works for me, instead shields I use armoured compartments, instead flimsy laser, I do dakka. Now I even need batteries to balance out my builds.
Also I use material beside building, for regeneration a lot.
Freedom of upkeep vs heavier ship-costs.

I am inclined to try emergency small steam boilers, and keep away from fuel till some devilish plan comes along.

I wonder, have other mad engineers / fellow scientists discovered a way to make power other ways?

Like dropping self replicating cubes of small leaded batteries, which come into play full, and give back all to the mothership (can be reclaimed after battle) or like so?

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2017-08-30, 10:23 PM
Post: #2
RE: Alternative ways of getting power?
Aside from using the batt exploit you mentioned, theres no way (I know off) to get power in any alternative method.

Mate, instead of relaying on gimmicks/exploits to get power. Just slap petrol engines on your ship/Thing.

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2017-08-30, 10:31 PM
Post: #3
RE: Alternative ways of getting power?
(2017-08-30 09:58 PM)Normal69 Wrote:  As we all know, if you keep more resources, you can build more, or bigger units, so expand faster.
That is the main point why I am using RTGs.
And that works for me, instead shields I use armoured compartments, instead flimsy laser, I do dakka. Now I even need batteries to balance out my builds.

Huh
Huh
Huh

1) If you use RTGs you are so starved of resources you can barely spawn anything half-decent due to the massive material costs
2) Given that a single weak shield can deflect any non-fused shell quite consistently, it outclasses much bulkier armour setups even when you factor in the extra engine size
3) What do you mean by the last bit 'I even need batteries to balance out my builds'?

Using RTGs will massively inflate the cost of your vehicle and ruin its power output, making it total garbage against similar-cost designs using steam or fuel engines.

(2017-07-10 02:50 AM)Resolas Wrote:  Forward broadside is the best broadside Tongue
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2017-08-30, 10:51 PM
Post: #4
RE: Alternative ways of getting power?
Theres also NO reason to seek other powersources

Just use Petrol engines, they are far the best in every category if you are skilled enough with them. They provide buttload of power so you can shield your crafts and arm them with the most powerful weaponry. With well build refinery the fuel can be dirty cheap.

RTG's require to be massed to support any unit that could fight enemies Beyond OW/DWG. Which makes the unit as Kaonic said, very cost ineffective. And i can assure your RTG units will get thrashed by enemies at some point before they will worth their price.

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2017-08-30, 11:40 PM
Post: #5
RE: Alternative ways of getting power?
RTGs are a *massive* front-loaded cost. You could install decent fuel engines & build a refinery with what's left over, and your single refinery can fuel all your new ships too instead of front-loading even more cost every time you build a ship. In campaign the only time to really use steam is if you're desperate for power density or you're awash in resources ( other than camping for a bit before assaulting SD, I'd like to ask "how" ) and I think the only time I'd use an RTG is so I can go into battle with full batteries rather than waste 15s charging them.

I do have my fleet share battery charge & use battery-electric/fuel hybrid power, that evens out power spikes from LAMS use & also means ships aren't helpless if they lose their engine - I've seen one of my ships keep fighting under fire for several mins without it's engine, thanks to the fleet keeping it charged. It'd be quite possible to run a bunch of small ships on just battery with one or two bigger ones supplying electric power, that is just not independent enough for me.

Poke my boat! pre-2.0 learning & catalogue thread - 6 ships made 2.0 aware. Regularily doing other things until the eye-strain post-processing can be disabled again; great game but not worth the literal headache.
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2017-08-31, 07:51 AM (This post was last modified: 2017-08-31 08:11 AM by Normal69.)
Post: #6
RE: Alternative ways of getting power?
Hmm, what do you do when you ask something, and the only answer is "your question is not valid"? Wink

I assure you, my rtg units are working in the campaign, and adventure mode. Proof on my channel below.
My units just are'nt power-dependent so much. Usually they have one power-dependent feature, like high speed, shields, pacs or lams, or some of them but only with small power consumption. Carefully planned armour and fast regeneration usually works together well, and I use terrain advantages shamelessly.

I assure you, I like gimmicking, and curious of new solutions - otherwise I would just slap together some prefabs and subobjects, cover them, and ready, which I would consider boring.
So I have reasons, and I got the pun of "just slap on some engines", I've earned it. Smile

"2) Given that a single weak shield can deflect any non-fused shell quite consistently, it outclasses much bulkier armour setups even when you factor in the extra engine size"
Our usual armor is shaped wood+metal+sparse heavy armor crossbeams with surge protectors. With the repair tentacles this is holding up well, and can fly.

"3) What do you mean by the last bit 'I even need batteries to balance out my builds'?"
They are heavy, so I've made the habit of using them to align/fine tune the mass center with my propulsion/shape as I fill in the hull.

Your opinions were interesting - thank you for that - but I would like to encourage thinking and experimenting (and maybe someone already did some ideas, or provide ones), rather than repeating what tradition says.

If you are afraid to hear my english (which I consider a survival feature) look at my units and despair! Big Grin
WTF are these?

Have a good time!
*sleepy in work*

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2017-08-31, 09:21 AM
Post: #7
RE: Alternative ways of getting power?
Normal, tbh, your question is quite hard to decipher, i had to like read the whole question atleast 5 times before i could make a reasonable response. And in my original response, i also wanted to bash your decision to use RTG's. But i sticked to the question

Now, to your last response

If you are using RTG's + Repair bot spam, then you are very, very cost ineffective. And i wonder if you are playing on Easy or Normal difficulty since i doubt you could play with such units on Hard or Godly beyond DWG/OW. If single godly ship can cause you like 25-65k material damage every battle, you cannot play with that against end game factions who can really grind down crafts in quick successions.

2) Using cheese huh, but hey, i stopped using this myself since it will destroy your economy if you use it in larger numbers

3) Then i must doubt your designer skills if you are balancing your builds with batteries, just use lead, its dirty cheap and EMP wont do anything to it.

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2017-08-31, 02:19 PM (This post was last modified: 2017-08-31 02:22 PM by Kaonicping.)
Post: #8
RE: Alternative ways of getting power?
(2017-08-31 07:51 AM)Normal69 Wrote:  I assure you, my rtg units are working in the campaign, and adventure mode. Proof on my channel below.

I watched a little bit of one of your videos, which was a rather... surreal experience Big Grin
I only saw you fighting an Atlas or possibly an Atlas Retrofit (which is basically a free kill), and later your huge 20k block thingy against an Eyrie (which isn't a particularly fair fight since it probably costs way more. RTG units of course work, but they just can't compete with other things at the same cost, or even the same size since they have bad power density.

The one thing I might consider RTGs for is the very rare circumstance where the shape of the internals only allow long strips for your power production, and when you don't need much power. But for huge vehicles fuel or steam engines are a must.

(2017-08-31 07:51 AM)Normal69 Wrote:  My units just are'nt power-dependent so much. Usually they have one power-dependent feature, like high speed, shields, pacs or lams, or some of them but only with small power consumption. Carefully planned armour and fast regeneration usually works together well, and I use terrain advantages shamelessly.

Fast regen works well with everything, which is why it's considered cheese...

(2017-08-31 07:51 AM)Normal69 Wrote:  "2) Given that a single weak shield can deflect any non-fused shell quite consistently, it outclasses much bulkier armour setups even when you factor in the extra engine size"
Our usual armor is shaped wood+metal+sparse heavy armor crossbeams with surge protectors. With the repair tentacles this is holding up well, and can fly.

Cheese Tongue. What's the point of using RTGs and repair tentacles which don't allow for decent defences and burn through resources really fast, when you can use fuel or steam engines which will use less resources under fire than repairing lots of blocks (and have a much lower up-front cost), and can support big LAMSs and shields so the blocks don't break in the first place?

(2017-07-10 02:50 AM)Resolas Wrote:  Forward broadside is the best broadside Tongue
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2017-09-01, 05:51 AM (This post was last modified: 2017-09-01 05:53 AM by Normal69.)
Post: #9
RE: Alternative ways of getting power?
(2017-08-31 02:19 PM)Kaonicping Wrote:  Cheese Tongue. What's the point of using RTGs and repair tentacles which don't allow for decent defences and burn through resources really fast, when you can use fuel or steam engines which will use less resources under fire than repairing lots of blocks (and have a much lower up-front cost), and can support big LAMSs and shields so the blocks don't break in the first place?

All cheese must be eaten! Big Grin
Corwin of Amber once said "This is not the olimpic games." when confronted about his unchivalrious combat style.
Also RTG regens quicker than engines.

The joyous feeling can be discovered at the beginning of the adventure mode, right after the cat. Wink
Here it is!

From the Depths english playlist starts here, before that it's hungarian:
https://youtu.be/Ltdx0yVI9cA?list=PLImar...ZokVtdBa73

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2017-09-01, 06:46 AM
Post: #10
RE: Alternative ways of getting power?
If you want cheese, most of the game's cheese runs on power, namely shields and PACs. Tongue

If it's engine / battery power you want, and you care much more about efficiency than about space, there is a way to set up an absurdly efficient fuel engine with five inline turbos per carburettor and two carbs per engine. That's much more efficient for getting power over its lifetime than RTGs. I'll leave it to you to figure out the pathing.

Also, RTGs do regenerate more quickly than engines if you're using regeneration spam, but if your RTGs get hit at all, it's almost certain that they'll end up having been less material efficient over their lifespan than an engine - that is, they produced less power per material that went into building and powering them than a fuel engine or even steam engine would.

I think you can squeeze a little more efficiency out of a steam piston engine by mixing shaft power and generation rather than using raw shaft power, and of course if you have excess batteries you can adjust the electric engine's power output for more efficiency as well.
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