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[2.0] Missiles explode into the gantry before the warhead armed
2017-07-21, 05:02 PM (This post was last modified: 2017-07-21 05:03 PM by draba.)
Post: #1
[2.0] Missiles explode into the gantry before the warhead armed
To reproduce:
  • spawn in the chair of the attached blueprint
  • wait ~5 seconds for the cannon to load
  • hold leftarrow to trigger firing the flak cannon and the missiles
  • the missiles explode and destroy the gantries, despite having 5 sec armong delay
  • hold right arrow to stop firing

Proposed solution:
  • If a missile is destroyed before it is armed do not trigger the payload

[Image: FZfYVuEl.jpg] [Image: VOkBUtOl.jpg]


Attached File(s)
.blueprint  FlakTest.blueprint (Size: 111.57 KB / Downloads: 8)
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2017-07-21, 09:44 PM
Post: #2
RE: [2.0] Missiles explode into the gantry before the warhead armed
(2017-07-21 05:02 PM)draba Wrote:  Proposed solution:
  • If a missile is destroyed before it is armed do not trigger the payload

Honestly, I think the current behaviour is OK.
Missiles are full of explosives and fuel. If they are hit by an explosion, I think they should explode.
That said, I never tried, in real life, to fire an explosive shell near a missile to see what happens...

Of course, I presume that's the same thing with the nuclear bomb, and there I do not agree, because a nuclear bomb will not detonate if caught in an explosion. It will explode in a 'normal' way, but not in a 'nuclear' way.
So, here we may have a bug...
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2017-07-21, 10:59 PM
Post: #3
RE: [2.0] Missiles explode into the gantry before the warhead armed
(2017-07-21 09:44 PM)Gladyon Wrote:  Honestly, I think the current behaviour is OK.
Missiles are full of explosives and fuel. If they are hit by an explosion, I think they should explode.
That said, I never tried, in real life, to fire an explosive shell near a missile to see what happens...

Of course, I presume that's the same thing with the nuclear bomb, and there I do not agree, because a nuclear bomb will not detonate if caught in an explosion. It will explode in a 'normal' way, but not in a 'nuclear' way.
So, here we may have a bug...

Problem is the effect on gameplay.
You only have to shoot high radius flak in the general direction of the target and its own missiles cripple it.
No sanity check for cover/20m solid metal in between, they just explode no questions asked.
Missiles are bad enough without actively hurting their user.
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2017-07-21, 11:15 PM
Post: #4
RE: [2.0] Missiles explode into the gantry before the warhead armed
(2017-07-21 10:59 PM)draba Wrote:  
(2017-07-21 09:44 PM)Gladyon Wrote:  Honestly, I think the current behaviour is OK.
Missiles are full of explosives and fuel. If they are hit by an explosion, I think they should explode.
That said, I never tried, in real life, to fire an explosive shell near a missile to see what happens...

Of course, I presume that's the same thing with the nuclear bomb, and there I do not agree, because a nuclear bomb will not detonate if caught in an explosion. It will explode in a 'normal' way, but not in a 'nuclear' way.
So, here we may have a bug...

Problem is the effect on gameplay.
You only have to shoot high radius flak in the general direction of the target and its own missiles cripple it.
No sanity check for cover/20m solid metal in between, they just explode no questions asked.
Missiles are bad enough without actively hurting their user.

That's true enough.
But the problem may be the flak.
I have a flak turret designed to destroy the LAMS nodes and detection equipment, and it protects the target from my own missiles.
It is firing 2 shells per second and my missiles are detonated by my own flak shells...
I think that is also a gameplay problem, as you said, the missiles are already bad enough so we don't need to shoot our own missiles short on the target...
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2017-07-22, 12:15 AM (This post was last modified: 2017-07-22 12:15 AM by draba.)
Post: #5
RE: [2.0] Missiles explode into the gantry before the warhead armed
Yep, 2 problems exacerbating each other:
  • Missiles really shouldn't explode into the gantry, even HE can have 20m+ nominal radius so without LoS check it's kinda expected for them to be frequently killed on takeoff
  • Flak radius is massive, even after fixing 500mm getting 300m+. Missiles are just useless whenever flak is involved (see the cannon on the demo, scale it down to ~100 RPM and boom, missile immunity)
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2017-07-24, 07:44 PM
Post: #6
RE: [2.0] Missiles explode into the gantry before the warhead armed
About missiles exploding when destroyed before they're armed:

Ideally, they shouldn't. Go watch The Hunt for Red October for a particularly dramatic example. (Torpedoes in that case - but the principle is the same, and FTD uses the same system, fuel, and warheads for missiles and torpedoes anyway.)
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2017-07-24, 07:55 PM
Post: #7
RE: [2.0] Missiles explode into the gantry before the warhead armed
(2017-07-24 07:44 PM)BioPhoenix Wrote:  About missiles exploding when destroyed before they're armed:

Ideally, they shouldn't. Go watch The Hunt for Red October for a particularly dramatic example. (Torpedoes in that case - but the principle is the same, and FTD uses the same system, fuel, and warheads for missiles and torpedoes anyway.)

That's not the same thing.
A torpedo will not explode on impact if not armed because:
- the trigger will not detonate it (it isn't armed)
- the impact will not damage it enough to explode (the torpedo is too slow for that)

If you place explosive on a torpedo, and detonate the explosive, I'm pretty sure the torpedo's explosive will also detonate.


What we are speaking about is a flak explosion that hits the missile is currently detonating it.
I think it's normal, but Draba points out that it's bad for gameplay.
And on that he's right.
And I think (as Draba it seems), that for this particular game, gameplay is more important than pure realism.

So, my conclusion is that missiles explodes too easily when hit by a flak explosion and that it's bad for gameplay.
The range should be reduced a bit, and maybe a non-flying missile should be harder to detonate.



Off-topic:
If you liked the movie The hunt for Red October, you should read the book, it's far far better.
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