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Tank Tussle Planning
2017-06-18, 01:09 PM (This post was last modified: 2017-06-18 03:33 PM by Menti.)
Post: #1
Tank Tussle Planning
Hey everyone!

As some of you may know from browsing the BB Brawl thread, the next tourney I'm planning on hosting is a land-based, tank tournament. I have some preliminary rules set up, but they're far from finalized. I'd like to know what people would like to see in this sort of tournament.

For example, the current rules has this as a multiple entry tournament, but I was waffling on whether to do that or just have it be a 1 on 1 thing. Frankly, I would rather it be a 1 on 1 and Zebgef seems to agree with me there for the same reasons: FTD AI is just too derpy to have 6 vehicles on the battlefield without turning it into at least a 2 or 3 vehicle pileup at some point. Plus I think it'd be cool to see what people can do with a single vehicle given the weapon restrictions.

So, there's a poll attached to this thread. Go ahead and vote on which you'd rather see.

Here are the current (but unfinalized) rules:

-Max Materials: 30k
-Max Vehicles: 3
-Spawn Range: 2000m
-Max Range: 1000m. Yes, this means you start out of range, but with Wootness's Tournament mod you will not gain disqualification time as long as your vehicles are moving toward the enemy.
-Allowed Weapons:1 APS cannon only. That's right, 1 APS firing piece per tank. That's it. Make it work.
-Weapon Restrictions:
--No multi-barrel firing pieces. The firing piece must be set to have 1 barrel.
--No belt fed autoloaders. I want to see tanks, not IFVs with autocannons.
--No frag rounds
--No gravram rounds
--No EMP
--No railguns
-Your entry's (or entries') must be able to fight itself without causing projectiles to despawn from hitting the projectile cap.
-Must be vaguely tank-like. It doesn't have to be realistic or pretty, but a lattice tank or a box/wall with a gun on it will not be accepted.
-No filling the empty space of your tank with cheap blocks (like pipes) to prevent HEAT projectiles from spawning. If you want HEAT protection, use ERA.
-No exploits. If you think what you're doing is cheesy and might not be accepted, it probably won't be. Tone it down. I'm going to be a bit more strict on this than I have been in the past.
-Aim point is banned
-LUA is banned
-Shields are banned
-The map is completely flat. You can find a copy of it attached to this post. Thanks to Cptn Cleator for his Storm of 35 map!
-Minimum speed 10 m/s
-Maximum speed of 30 m/s
-Max altitude of 7m


Attached File(s)
.zip  So35FlatLand.zip (Size: 94.32 KB / Downloads: 16)
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2017-06-18, 01:47 PM
Post: #2
RE: Tank Tussle Planning
Hmm, might take part as an exercise in improving my tank building skills for So35, assuming I have time around it.

(yo, @Menti, I PM'd you with a flat land map to save you some time)

The Fod Wrote:I'm going to make a boat with a V-hull and tumbleholm *user was kicked from your channel*

Need a custom map for a tourney or CC? Drop me a PM, I may be able to help.

Into Realistic FTD Shenanigans? Come join us!
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2017-06-18, 02:03 PM
Post: #3
RE: Tank Tussle Planning
Is wootness's mod based on speed of the craft or the oriantation? If orientation, there could be a loophole of a tank staying as far away as possible (1000+) while facing the enemy, so it does not get DQ time, I think it should be checked out, but a clause saying that entries should try to stay within 1000m should fix this.

Also, dodging shenanagins? It may not be a problem @ 1000m, but who knows?

Max altitude, I think it should be finalized only when you have the final map, as the ground may not be a 0 altitude.

Detection? Is it needed, is it fine to put detection equipment on spinblocks to not end up with a couple lucky shots on one side sniping the detection equipment thus deciding the battle?

Armor on spinblocks? Not compressing multiple blocks into the space of one, but rather using a spinblock to angle the armor / whatever?

This statement is false
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2017-06-18, 02:09 PM
Post: #4
RE: Tank Tussle Planning
(2017-06-18 01:47 PM)CptnCleator Wrote:  Hmm, might take part as an exercise in improving my tank building skills for So35, assuming I have time around it.

(yo, @Menti, I PM'd you with a flat land map to save you some time)

Thanks a bunch! That's super useful.
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2017-06-18, 02:17 PM
Post: #5
RE: Tank Tussle Planning
(2017-06-18 02:03 PM)Zijkhal Wrote:  Is wootness's mod based on speed of the craft or the oriantation? If orientation, there could be a loophole of a tank staying as far away as possible (1000+) while facing the enemy, so it does not get DQ time, I think it should be checked out, but a clause saying that entries should try to stay within 1000m should fix this.

Not 100% sure what you're asking there so I may not be answering the question you mean, but I'll try. I do believe that Wootness's mod more or less checks the vector of the vessel to see if it is closing the distance or opening it, so if you were to face the enemy but move backwards you would still gain DQ time if you were out of range. Not 100% sure on that but I'll do some testing.

Quote:Also, dodging shenanagins? It may not be a problem @ 1000m, but who knows?

With a 30 m/s max speed and 1000m max distance I don't think dodging is going to be too much of an issue, even for hovers. They'll definitely be able to evade some shots but they won't be able to become invulnerable unless you make a /really/ slow shell.

Quote:Max altitude, I think it should be finalized only when you have the final map, as the ground may not be a 0 altitude.

Good point, but 7m off the ground is going to be the final value. Whatever that number ends up being.

Quote:Detection? Is it needed, is it fine to put detection equipment on spinblocks to not end up with a couple lucky shots on one side sniping the detection equipment thus deciding the battle?

I knew I'd forget something. Hm. I don't like putting detection on spinblocks if its inside the hull and thus protected. At that point we may as well just use auto detection because it makes little difference. I could allow detection on spinblocks as long as the equipment would be able to see were it not on a spinblock, then put it at like 85-90% auto detect. That way losing your detection equipment isn't an automatic loss, but it does put you at a disadvantage.

Quote:Armor on spinblocks? Not compressing multiple blocks into the space of one, but rather using a spinblock to angle the armor / whatever?

I'm fine with armor on spinblocks if they aren't compressing multiple blocks into the same space. Using spinblocks to create angled armor you wouldn't normally be able to build is a-okay by me.
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2017-06-18, 02:21 PM
Post: #6
RE: Tank Tussle Planning
Also, I attached the map Cptn Cleator provided to the OP so people can use it to build and test. Thanks again for saving me the time and frustration of using FtD's world editor! XD
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2017-06-18, 03:18 PM (This post was last modified: 2017-06-18 03:32 PM by NutterChap.)
Post: #7
RE: Tank Tussle Planning
No beltfed to reduce RPM... how about stacking a ton of autoloaders, each with one clip and an input on each clip?

I think one can then still make a pretty fast-firing monstrosity, given enough cooling guage pieces.

What was the max nr of APS projectiles in 1 instance again?

I think, Menti, you do need to have a hard ROF cap so that both entries at any time can go full RPM.
Detectionequipment needed? Turret necessary? Nukes? Repairbots? Amount of materials available during battle? Mods allowed? Grav rams allowed? Balloons allowed?

Also,Im in for the same reason as Cptn Cleator: So35. I want to find out what makes a good tank. Smile

I hope you will put up with a little more of my foolishness. Please bear with me.
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2017-06-18, 03:28 PM (This post was last modified: 2017-06-18 03:38 PM by Menti.)
Post: #8
RE: Tank Tussle Planning
(2017-06-18 03:18 PM)NutterChap Wrote:  No beltfed to reduce RPM... how about stacking a ton of autoloaders, each with one clip and an input on each clip?

I think one can then still make a pretty fast-firing monstrosity, given enough cooling guage pieces.

What was the max nr of APS projectiles in 1 instance again?

I think, Menti, you do need to have a hard ROF cap so that both entries at any time can go full RPM.
Detectionequipment needed? Turret necessary? Nukes? Repairbots? Amount of materials available during battle? Mods allowed? Grav rams allowed? Balloons allowed?

I'm okay with someone making a fast firing monstrosity in that case because it also becomes a huge target that will destroy your entire vehicle if it takes a hit. That and with it being single barrel you'd need a mountain of coolers to make it work, which is expensive and will come at the cost of of thinner armor and a larger profile. Unlike with beltfeds, this creates a situation where you need to make tangible design choices rather than just slap the blocks on and go.

You're right, though, I'm going to add a clause about RoF projectile despawning. Added:
-Your entry must be able to fight itself without causing projectiles to despawn from hitting the projectile cap.

This ensures that one entry can never use more than 50% of the projectile cap.

No turret is required. Nukes are a weapon and the only weapon allowed is a single APS firing piece. The amount of materials available will depend on whether I go with a 3v3 or 1v1 format.

Grav rams should be banned, yeah, thanks for reminding me. Those things are beyond broken, lol. Balloons are okay, but no balloon armor as I consider that an exploit. I won't be using any mods. Repair bots are okay, go crazy with those.

As for detection equipment, I'm leaning toward making the auto-detect be somewhere in the 80-90% range so detection isn't /required/, but not having it puts you at a disadvantage.
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2017-06-18, 04:48 PM
Post: #9
RE: Tank Tussle Planning
Greetings people!
I originally wanted to participate in BB Bralw3, but unfortunately ran out of time. -.- But now I'm all hyped up again! Big Grin I'm really looking forward to this.
I'm really glad you still loyally do the episodes Menti. Hats off for you!
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2017-06-18, 09:00 PM (This post was last modified: 2017-06-18 09:03 PM by Kaonicping.)
Post: #10
RE: Tank Tussle Planning
It's been a while since I built any tanks, so I might want to give this a try. I'm probably going to end up building a gun on wheels, but that's basically a tank, right? Big Grin

(2017-01-03 04:39 PM)Nick Smart Wrote:  more booze and less circle

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