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Shell Design Discussion. Post your best Shells!
2017-08-10, 10:48 AM
Post: #101
RE: Shell Design Discussion. Post your best Shells!
(2017-08-09 02:22 PM)Richard Dastardly Wrote:  Not sure exactly how the current HESH mechanic works ( especially what happens if it hits a shield ), but a 71mm shell of semi-decent velocity gives me a 4.5 spalling metric and 120 thump damage. That does not seem like it'll do much of anything Confused

(2017-08-09 03:07 PM)Skyer Wrote:  ""Spam"" I tested it on a bomber, Since HESH are usually quite slow they have a decent chance to go through shields

This. You gotta ditch the idea of "fill everything that is not a warhead with gunpowder casings". You want slow projectiles if spamming them, to counter passive defenses. LAMS can be overwhelmed with amount.

A 300 m/s slow projectile gets enough spalling metric/thump damage to seriously mess up metal targets in a reasonable time.

______________
Gladyon for Dev! Big Grin
(2017-06-19 03:02 PM)Guaibee Wrote:  Every once in a while I see a surge of replies on multiple threads from the same person...
spooling up reply surge...
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2017-08-10, 03:56 PM
Post: #102
RE: Shell Design Discussion. Post your best Shells!
300m/s is only double the speed of a few aircraft in the campaign. One twitch & unless the plane is right on top of the gun it'll miss even some of the slower ones because the best targeting algorithm can't properly predict if there's a long flight time. From experience you're quite likely to miss faster ships, even. LAMS is completely irrelevant for small gauge shells anyway. Time to look at energy weapons, I guess.

Is there any change to HESH other than it being 5x a previous HESH shell?

Poke my boat! pre-2.0 learning & catalogue thread - 6 ships made 2.0 aware. Regularily doing other things until the eye-strain post-processing can be disabled again; great game but not worth the literal headache.
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2017-08-10, 09:03 PM
Post: #103
RE: Shell Design Discussion. Post your best Shells!
(2017-08-10 03:56 PM)Richard Dastardly Wrote:  Is there any change to HESH other than it being 5x a previous HESH shell?


(2017-07-04 03:17 PM)Nick Smart Wrote:  *khaz edit with change log*

APS - HEAT and HESH now explode on impact, and cannot ricochet
APS - HESH cone angle 60 from 30
APS - HESH will also create spalling at 5 other airgaps randomly selected from the forwards hemisphere
APS - Squash head thump effective AP is now 10
APS - Hesh frag number divided by the square rooted AC of the armour it passes through instead of the raw AC. (HA=6.3, Metal = 3.6)

That would be a yes Wink

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2017-08-11, 01:01 AM
Post: #104
RE: Shell Design Discussion. Post your best Shells!
Now with 2.01, are most of these designs dead?

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2017-08-11, 11:51 AM (This post was last modified: 2017-08-11 11:52 AM by Kaonicping.)
Post: #105
RE: Shell Design Discussion. Post your best Shells!
(2017-08-11 01:01 AM)Fat_Ninja Wrote:  Now with 2.01, are most of these designs dead?

2.0 kinda killed HEAT a bit and also narrow-angle frag, so the old meta is fairly dead. However, we never got the improved shields so even if HESH got a big buff it's still useless against shields. So now you either use the somewhat crappy In-F/HEAT which while it does kill things through shields it does so very slowly, or you just bring DCs, which has always been a bit hit and miss. Undecided In-HE is useable, but when the shields are far enough away from the hull it becomes useless, and flak got nerfed in 2.01 so it doesn't do much to anything other than missiles.

(2017-07-10 02:50 AM)Resolas Wrote:  Forward broadside is the best broadside Tongue
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2017-08-12, 06:04 AM
Post: #106
RE: Shell Design Discussion. Post your best Shells!
Fact: there is no such thing as a best shell

Point A: a simple 1m long, 8 segment shell can suffice for, literally, everything except enemies with anti-munition defenses (are anti-artillery-munition defenses possible?)

Point B: 4 GP should be standard and enough to get the shell across the very very very very very very very short distance you have to fight everything in FTD

Point C: 4 segments, of which can be your basic HE shell with an HE cap would basically be your modern day standard HE artillery shell

Point A of C: You don't need to worry so much about how you make the shell, so much as you do how you deliver it

We have the technology and materials to make an artillery cannon that fires a 200-300mm artillery shell, discards the shell, and reloads the round for firing again at the same firing rate as a Barrett .50 cal. rifle, and have about 20 rounds ready to fire per sequence. The magazine or belt that would feed the cannon would be moved via other hard and strong technology, but as a whole, you can make a cannon that can do that. Cooling the barrel is another matter and still possible IRL.

TLDR: Guys. You can make a 500m cannon in FTD that can fire fully automatic. Like, not fire, reload time fire, but rather about between 3 RPS and 20 RPS. You ahve the technology to take 1m long rounds for a 120mm cannon, and fire them as fast as a minigun can. Imagine setting up a big gun with one 120mm barrel, or 6, and adding enough parts to be able to fire it as fast as a minigun. Then multiply that by six. Because you can build as big as you want and as many cannons as you desire. A virtual cloud of 120mm artillery shells loaded with HE will rain down on your enemies, and they would be dead in seconds. Least for the beginning game.

Someone once said the gun doesn't decide but the guage of the round fired. I beg to defer. Round is 8% of your success. the other 92% is building something.
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2017-08-12, 12:17 PM (This post was last modified: 2017-08-12 12:20 PM by Kaonicping.)
Post: #107
RE: Shell Design Discussion. Post your best Shells!
(2017-08-12 06:04 AM)The Architect Wrote:  Fact: there is no such thing as a best shell

Point A: a simple 1m long, 8 segment shell can suffice for, literally, everything except enemies with anti-munition defenses (are anti-artillery-munition defenses possible?)

Point B: 4 GP should be standard and enough to get the shell across the very very very very very very very short distance you have to fight everything in FTD

Point C: 4 segments, of which can be your basic HE shell with an HE cap would basically be your modern day standard HE artillery shell

Point A of C: You don't need to worry so much about how you make the shell, so much as you do how you deliver it

We have the technology and materials to make an artillery cannon that fires a 200-300mm artillery shell, discards the shell, and reloads the round for firing again at the same firing rate as a Barrett .50 cal. rifle, and have about 20 rounds ready to fire per sequence. The magazine or belt that would feed the cannon would be moved via other hard and strong technology, but as a whole, you can make a cannon that can do that. Cooling the barrel is another matter and still possible IRL.

TLDR: Guys. You can make a 500m cannon in FTD that can fire fully automatic. Like, not fire, reload time fire, but rather about between 3 RPS and 20 RPS. You ahve the technology to take 1m long rounds for a 120mm cannon, and fire them as fast as a minigun can. Imagine setting up a big gun with one 120mm barrel, or 6, and adding enough parts to be able to fire it as fast as a minigun. Then multiply that by six. Because you can build as big as you want and as many cannons as you desire. A virtual cloud of 120mm artillery shells loaded with HE will rain down on your enemies, and they would be dead in seconds. Least for the beginning game.

Someone once said the gun doesn't decide but the guage of the round fired. I beg to defer. Round is 8% of your success. the other 92% is building something.

I had a lot of fun with a 1400 component derpcannon (now somewhat obsolete since it fires In-F(5deg)/HEAT), which I set firing 500mmx8m shells at about 30 rounds per second. It's immensively satisfying to tap CTRL and find out what's on the other side of that Thyr Big Grin.

I very much disagree with the idea that the shell type isn't important. Shields force you to either use a handful of now-unimpressive components, or with 2.0 DCs seem like a better option on bigger vessels (I want to try a 5-barrel 168mm GP(x5)/BB/EW(x11)/DC shotgun one of these days). If I switched my derpcannon over to So/Sa kinetic rounds it becomes instantly almost useless against even a single weak shield, and even without shields I could seriously hamper it by getting the mix of So and Sa wrong. If we had shield changes that de-cancerise shields then you would be very much correct that it doesn't matter too much which type of round you use. The main thing hurting APS balance right now is not APS balance but shields, and if this game is to achieve balance in future outside of DC shotgunning then getting your ass handed to you by a fast orbiter that dodges your DCs, shields need a change.

But even then, fat, slow HE/HEAT/HESH/Flak/EMP shells are still very vulnerable to LAMS since they don't have all that much health and are pretty easy for the munition warners to spot. So atm not only do you need to fire DCs to get your HESH through, but you also need to fire smoke shells as well...

(2017-07-10 02:50 AM)Resolas Wrote:  Forward broadside is the best broadside Tongue
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2017-08-13, 07:18 AM (This post was last modified: 2017-08-13 07:28 AM by Richard Dastardly.)
Post: #108
RE: Shell Design Discussion. Post your best Shells!
(2017-08-11 01:01 AM)Fat_Ninja Wrote:  Now with 2.01, are most of these designs dead?

If you're fighting shields then for any gun you can't build a reasonable disruptor round for, sort-of. You could just widen your frag angles & make a drink while your ship kills stuff slowly.

For high gauge guns, the disruptor ballistics changes mean you can mix rounds in with your main ammo & pretend shields aren't there. You can throw out inertial fuses for a lot of things too.

The irony is the balance changes were meant to make shields less effective, & currently they're *more* effective.

Poke my boat! pre-2.0 learning & catalogue thread - 6 ships made 2.0 aware. Regularily doing other things until the eye-strain post-processing can be disabled again; great game but not worth the literal headache.
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