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Eagle Industries presents: Conquest class light destroyer
2017-08-31, 10:50 AM
Post: #11
RE: Eagle Industries presents: Conquest class light destroyer
Sure, do note that the main gun is optimized for use in the Conquest only, because of the size constraints and the recoil. The AA-gun is a generic Eagle Industries turret and has been built to be used on more builds, and is thus better optimized. Smile

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2017-08-31, 07:53 PM
Post: #12
RE: Eagle Industries presents: Conquest class light destroyer
How exactly do you push yourself to Tetris? It's such a long and arduous process of building, testing, optimizing, and moving stuff around in cramped spaces only to find it doesn't work as planned, fits or looks like you wanted to. I really really adore your hulls and modern design though, I tried to replicate it with my Sentinel.
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2017-08-31, 08:30 PM
Post: #13
RE: Eagle Industries presents: Conquest class light destroyer
Well, for one; I don't usually custom build turrets for every design. Instead I have them saved as subobjects and when designing a ship I take in consideration the turret I want to place and then load it out of the subobject list. Having them saved as subobjects also means that I can just build my turrets in a predetermined size out in the open, and then later on place them in the ship. Lastly, turret tetris is only difficult for small turrets. Larger turrets are quite easy to tetris because you can systematically place the coolers, loaders, clips etc. That said, the largest turrets I've made took a few hours in construction. The turret on the Overlord has also been revised many times, so that took quite a bit of work.

And thanks Smile

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2017-08-31, 09:21 PM (This post was last modified: 2017-08-31 11:56 PM by Richard Dastardly.)
Post: #14
RE: Eagle Industries presents: Conquest class light destroyer
(2017-08-31 07:53 PM)axwell Wrote:  How exactly do you push yourself to Tetris? It's such a long and arduous process of building, testing, optimizing, and moving stuff around in cramped spaces only to find it doesn't work as planned, fits or looks like you wanted to. I really really adore your hulls and modern design though, I tried to replicate it with my Sentinel.

Build a wall out of 1m blocks on a deck to represent the well, then lay the turret layout down with 1m high loaders - ie if you're using vertical loaders just use 1m ones, and horizontal loaders don't bother building higher than 1m until you've got some idea of a layout. Colour code loaders if you're using multiple firing pieces. Can do 80% of building like that, it's much easier to see what's going on. You can also build gauge snakes seperately on the deck. Example below - loader crosssection at the bottom, entire gauge snake ( needed to work in 3d because I really ran out of room with that build ) in the middle. It helps to build a bare fortress for doing this stuff too, just stick everything you'll need for testing on it other than the actual turret. If you want to make sure it fits, build a cross-section of the turret well - including the deck - of the ship on the deck too.

I think I actually enjoy building turrets & engines more than ships Tongue


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Poke my boat! pre-2.0 learning & catalogue thread - 6 ships made 2.0 aware. Regularily doing other things until the eye-strain post-processing can be disabled again; great game but not worth the literal headache.
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2017-08-31, 10:34 PM
Post: #15
RE: Eagle Industries presents: Conquest class light destroyer
Hey Richard, care to retest the Conquest for it's effectiveness, given you're lack of enthousiasm in the earlier build? Smile

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2017-08-31, 11:42 PM
Post: #16
RE: Eagle Industries presents: Conquest class light destroyer
I'm trying to build up a repertoire of turrets as subobjects, although I've found it difficult to find APS collections that are well optimized or properly designed to fit inside a ship. Maybe I'll give it a try, but I try to put what little time I have for the game into extending the fleet so I can give the Neter Campaign a try without building on the fly. For now I'll just steal Eagle's and Arcagnello's turret innards.
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2017-09-01, 12:22 AM
Post: #17
RE: Eagle Industries presents: Conquest class light destroyer
(2017-08-31 10:34 PM)Eagle Wrote:  Hey Richard, care to retest the Conquest for it's effectiveness, given you're lack of enthousiasm in the earlier build? Smile

What I didn't like about the original was it's problems hitting fast aircraft when that's what it was there for - still seems to have problems there, if it gets a missile hit in it wrecks the target but something like a SS Fury just runs around almost immune until then ( and let us not speak of Tachyons ). I also don't like having shells which don't fill the loader, but that's me Tongue would maybe try and increase the muzzle velocity. Other than that and perhaps not using anything HE-based under 250mm, businesslike ship as usual & nice punch for the cost ( fit your new style bridge on it though! ). I'll try it vs other flying stuff tomorrow. *Ahem* - torpedos do not generally have front fins.

(2017-08-31 11:42 PM)axwell Wrote:  I'm trying to build up a repertoire of turrets as subobjects, although I've found it difficult to find APS collections that are well optimized or properly designed to fit inside a ship. Maybe I'll give it a try, but I try to put what little time I have for the game into extending the fleet so I can give the Neter Campaign a try without building on the fly. For now I'll just steal Eagle's and Arcagnello's turret innards.

Decide what ammo you want to shoot, then build the turret, and then build the ship around it because that's going to affect *everything*. A warship only exists to take it's armament into battle...

I had a standard secondary AA turret, a standard 190mm small ship main gun, and that was it - everything else was bespoke for the ship variant. These days anything under 250mm is just a nightmare to find ammo for if there's shields around ( AP always worked if there wasn't & frag still works there ) which puts a lower limit on ship size unless you don't mind firing once a month - and for me, that sort of calibre means 3m shells so that's yet another factor for ship size.

Just build a few turrets, you'll hate them after a while when you can see how to build better ones, that's how the game works Smile

Poke my boat! pre-2.0 learning & catalogue thread - 6 ships made 2.0 aware. Regularily doing other things until the eye-strain post-processing can be disabled again; great game but not worth the literal headache.
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2017-09-01, 01:28 PM
Post: #18
RE: Eagle Industries presents: Conquest class light destroyer
(2017-09-01 12:22 AM)Richard Dastardly Wrote:  
(2017-08-31 10:34 PM)Eagle Wrote:  Hey Richard, care to retest the Conquest for it's effectiveness, given you're lack of enthousiasm in the earlier build? Smile

What I didn't like about the original was it's problems hitting fast aircraft when that's what it was there for - still seems to have problems there, if it gets a missile hit in it wrecks the target but something like a SS Fury just runs around almost immune until then ( and let us not speak of Tachyons ). I also don't like having shells which don't fill the loader, but that's me Tongue would maybe try and increase the muzzle velocity. Other than that and perhaps not using anything HE-based under 250mm, businesslike ship as usual & nice punch for the cost ( fit your new style bridge on it though! ). I'll try it vs other flying stuff tomorrow. *Ahem* - torpedos do not generally have front fins.

Shells that don't fit the loader have as an advantage a slightly lower recoil, lower cooldown and lower shell loading time..

You're right on the AA part, but I'm holding the opinion that a ship this size can't do everything without compromising. The rear missile launchers are thus primarily aimed for anti-ship and anti-thrustercraft. Against aircraft there are the front missile launchers, which have improved range now. The rear AA-gun has been upgraded so should be having a higher output, but the main limitation of AA-APS is of course the bad tracking.

As for the bridge. I'm a bit reluctant on fitting a new bridge on this thing, I tend to like the way the superstructure is shaped on this ship, unlike the Supremacy and the other old ships (Triton, Neptune and formerly the Aegis (before that got a new bridge)). Besides, I am a bit fearful that all the ships will start to look alike in the end, and that's something I'd like to avoid.

Your torpedo comment has been noted, and discarded.
Tongue

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2017-09-02, 01:59 AM (This post was last modified: 2017-09-02 02:19 AM by Richard Dastardly.)
Post: #19
RE: Eagle Industries presents: Conquest class light destroyer
(2017-09-01 01:28 PM)Eagle Wrote:  The rear AA-gun has been upgraded so should be having a higher output, but the main limitation of AA-APS is of course the bad tracking.

Tracking issues are mitigated by... higher muzzle velocity - of course then you probably won't get through shields & we're back to low-calibre stuff being terrible right now, but you have more chance of shooting something down if the round actually makes it's way to the target. My AAA ship was built after I got fed up with not being able to shoot Tachyons, so that is kinda my reference mark - if it can't knock one out in a reasonable time, repeatedly - it's not doing it's job. I'm not sure how I'll build one when I get round to a new fleet ( if I ever can ) but that will still be something of a reference mark. My old Mink is still quite effective it looks like - well it can't solo a Tachyon because it's defenses won't stand up for any length of time - but that hull doesn't self-right anymore because alloy appears not to be so bouyant, so it needs a new hull & I might as well do new everything else then.

Poke my boat! pre-2.0 learning & catalogue thread - 6 ships made 2.0 aware. Regularily doing other things until the eye-strain post-processing can be disabled again; great game but not worth the literal headache.
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2017-09-02, 11:04 AM
Post: #20
RE: Eagle Industries presents: Conquest class light destroyer
Higher muzzle velocities, indeed, but I've found 400-500m/s to be decent for most targets. Any fast target requires a speed well above that, and that means a lower amount of payload for a higher amount of gunpowder (or a railgun, but I just don't have the power to fit one on the Conquest).
High muzzle velocities also mean that, although it is able to counter a niche-unit, it'll be worse off against other units... In general, my campaign strategy is just sheer numbers. Multiple destroyers, corvettes and frigates will always come out victorious, even though they are not specialized. Specialized units that I have are usually more expensive, too. The units <100k are just basic, sturdy units with a support role.

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