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Please Update the Game
2017-03-24, 09:04 PM
Post: #11
RE: Please Update the Game
(2017-03-24 08:58 PM)Gladyon Wrote:  Yes, you're right...
I think that when all the missing pieces will be there it will be time to finalize the features.
The missing pieces are (I may have missed a few):
- Missile gauge
- Nuclear reactor
- Plasma
- Fire
I don't know the status of NPC, but something is needed to prevent easy boarding. New NPCs or fixed miniguns or something else, but something is badly needed here.


I don't know how Nick will proceed once all the features will be in the game (when it will enter in beta), but if I were in his shoes I would take all the features one by one, and polish them (bug fixes, copy/paste everywhere, improve the GUIs, add the QoL details, etc.).
And once everything is polished, then the real balancing can take place, probably in 3-5 'waves' because I'm sure it's not psosible to balance FtD in one try...
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I feel like the game should enter a polishing phase for the next six months after the new update.
Also checked the changelog for the new update, nice but nothing groundbreaking, a step into the right direction.

http://pastebin.com/U7ETayau

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2017-03-24, 09:11 PM
Post: #12
RE: Please Update the Game
(2017-03-24 09:04 PM)Klayn_Rogue Wrote:  
(2017-03-24 08:58 PM)Gladyon Wrote:  Yes, you're right...
I think that when all the missing pieces will be there it will be time to finalize the features.
The missing pieces are (I may have missed a few):
- Missile gauge
- Nuclear reactor
- Plasma
- Fire
I don't know the status of NPC, but something is needed to prevent easy boarding. New NPCs or fixed miniguns or something else, but something is badly needed here.


I don't know how Nick will proceed once all the features will be in the game (when it will enter in beta), but if I were in his shoes I would take all the features one by one, and polish them (bug fixes, copy/paste everywhere, improve the GUIs, add the QoL details, etc.).
And once everything is polished, then the real balancing can take place, probably in 3-5 'waves' because I'm sure it's not psosible to balance FtD in one try...
|

I feel like the game should enter a polishing phase for the next six months after the new update.
Also checked the changelog for the new update, nice but nothing groundbreaking, a step into the right direction.

http://pastebin.com/U7ETayau

I also feels that it should be better polished, but usually in games, the Alpa is the place were features are added, and beta the place where they are polished.
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2017-03-24, 09:14 PM
Post: #13
RE: Please Update the Game
Yeah, you don't polish a game & then add a major new feature, that's a waste of polish. Add all systems, make sure they generally work, then it goes to beta & gets balance & polish.

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2017-03-24, 09:48 PM
Post: #14
RE: Please Update the Game
Really...?
Really...?!
Really...?!?!
REALLY...?!?!?!?!

This thread exists?

Good god you people...

I'm so close to just telling all of you lot to stfu, because the amount of cyninism of "OH the gmae is never gunna be finished QQ" is REALLY, REALLY, REALLY getting old now

Can we please just stop that now? We've had that stuff going on since January, so for three months! I'm tired of it, a lot of you will be getting tired of it really fast too once I start calling out YOU for every, SINGLE TIME you show this annoying behavior

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2017-03-24, 11:04 PM
Post: #15
RE: Please Update the Game
(2017-03-24 06:46 PM)Gladyon Wrote:  
(2017-03-24 06:28 PM)T3hJimmer Wrote:  You're both delusional. FtD is almost finished. All the major gameplay elements are implemented and functional. The only thing left is to tweak the numbers, and minor reworks of a few systems.

The only thing that needs a lot of work is multiplayer.

- Missile gauge
Minor overhaul to the missile system. But I'n not sure if this one is even going to happen, Nick has waffled back and for on it. It would be a cool feature, but not really necessary. Missiles are perfectly functional as they are.
(2017-03-24 06:46 PM)Gladyon Wrote:  - Strategic AI
What does this even mean?
(2017-03-24 06:46 PM)Gladyon Wrote:  - Tactical AI (especially the anti-collision...)
Ai needs a little love, but it's perfectly functional. The anti collision works most of the time, as long as you have enough control authority. Once again, needs a few tweaks, but is a complete and functional system.
(2017-03-24 06:46 PM)Gladyon Wrote:  - Nuclear reactor
The models are done, just needs to be given parameters and added to the game. It's basically just a boiler, so it should dovetail into the existing steam system.
(2017-03-24 06:46 PM)Gladyon Wrote:  - Plasma
I agree this one still needs to be done.
(2017-03-24 06:46 PM)Gladyon Wrote:  - Fire
Would be a neat feature, but I'm not sure if it's going to happen. Nick went back and forth about it being added. Would be a nice addition to the game, but FtD doesn't need it for the game to work.
(2017-03-24 06:46 PM)Gladyon Wrote:  - Steam engine (the current mechanics isn't finished, it's not a blancing issue, it just cannot work without rewriting some of its functionalities)
What exactly is your problem with steam? It seems to work fine to me. There needs to be some changes to the components so there is a reason to use all the different sizes of parts, but other than that it works fine.
(2017-03-24 06:46 PM)Gladyon Wrote:  And I probably forgot a dozen other things...
[edit] Yes, I forgot a 'minor' one: optimization.
You must be new, we just had a massive optimization patch 4-5 months ago.

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2017-03-25, 12:45 AM
Post: #16
RE: Please Update the Game
(2017-03-24 09:48 PM)Kohl Armata Wrote:  This thread exists?

It's a bit boring and kinda annoying that 70% of what shows up here in general discussion ends up being people whining about this. Or repeating the same suggestions about realism and call for invulnerability in something that needs battles to be shortish as it is a game.

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Bear it with pride, my friend. *salute*
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2017-03-25, 09:19 AM
Post: #17
RE: Please Update the Game
(2017-03-24 11:04 PM)T3hJimmer Wrote:  
(2017-03-24 06:46 PM)Gladyon Wrote:  
(2017-03-24 06:28 PM)T3hJimmer Wrote:  You're both delusional. FtD is almost finished. All the major gameplay elements are implemented and functional. The only thing left is to tweak the numbers, and minor reworks of a few systems.

The only thing that needs a lot of work is multiplayer.

- Missile gauge
Minor overhaul to the missile system. But I'n not sure if this one is even going to happen, Nick has waffled back and for on it. It would be a cool feature, but not really necessary. Missiles are perfectly functional as they are.
If it's only gauge then it may be minor.
But a lot of people are asking for a new missile system becasue the current one is very weak except if spammed as hell, and when it's spammed it melts the computer...

(2017-03-24 11:04 PM)T3hJimmer Wrote:  
(2017-03-24 06:46 PM)Gladyon Wrote:  - Strategic AI
What does this even mean?
It's the campaign AI (where to move the units, what to build, when, etc.).
Nick started the work on it and then switched to FS:
Strategic AI

(2017-03-24 11:04 PM)T3hJimmer Wrote:  
(2017-03-24 06:46 PM)Gladyon Wrote:  - Tactical AI (especially the anti-collision...)
Ai needs a little love, but it's perfectly functional. The anti collision works most of the time, as long as you have enough control authority. Once again, needs a few tweaks, but is a complete and functional system.
A little?? I'd say 'a lot'.
- the AI is aiming at total random
- the ship finds more beaches than tourists
- the submarines hit the ground as often as me when I try to fly in a plane simulator
- the repairs are random, except for one very clever thing: the turrets are repaired last because everybody knows that turrets aren't really important
- when you ask a ship to broadside at 90 degrees and stop broadsinding if closer than 1000m, once out of 3 it will ram the target
- when your ship has most of its weapons destroyed on a side, it will not use its other side to use the shields, armor and weapons that are still working
- etc.
I'm not even speaking about land AI or aerial AI which both needs voodoo to work correctly.

(2017-03-24 11:04 PM)T3hJimmer Wrote:  
(2017-03-24 06:46 PM)Gladyon Wrote:  - Nuclear reactor
The models are done, just needs to be given parameters and added to the game. It's basically just a boiler, so it should dovetail into the existing steam system.
Yes, this one shouldn't be too long/hard to develop. There's even a very good mod that uses these models.

(2017-03-24 11:04 PM)T3hJimmer Wrote:  
(2017-03-24 06:46 PM)Gladyon Wrote:  - Plasma
I agree this one still needs to be done.
I don't know the complexity Nick wants to put in this one.
If it is something with the same level of complexity than the PAC it shouldn't be so long.

(2017-03-24 11:04 PM)T3hJimmer Wrote:  
(2017-03-24 06:46 PM)Gladyon Wrote:  - Fire
Would be a neat feature, but I'm not sure if it's going to happen. Nick went back and forth about it being added. Would be a nice addition to the game, but FtD doesn't need it for the game to work.
Well, last time he spoke about it, it was on the roadmap:
DEVELOPMENT ROADMAP
You can also see a lot of things I haven't listed in that roadmap.

(2017-03-24 11:04 PM)T3hJimmer Wrote:  
(2017-03-24 06:46 PM)Gladyon Wrote:  - Steam engine (the current mechanics isn't finished, it's not a blancing issue, it just cannot work without rewriting some of its functionalities)
What exactly is your problem with steam? It seems to work fine to me. There needs to be some changes to the components so there is a reason to use all the different sizes of parts, but other than that it works fine.
The mechanics allow for infinite pression if you use turbines.
The small blocks are more efficient than the large blocks.
There is one available block that isn't even implemented (the fire box).
It's killing the CPU with all the animations.
ARCAGNELL0 could tell you a lot more about it, but there's an old list of things that arent very good with Steam:
Steam engines

(2017-03-24 11:04 PM)T3hJimmer Wrote:  
(2017-03-24 06:46 PM)Gladyon Wrote:  And I probably forgot a dozen other things...
[edit] Yes, I forgot a 'minor' one: optimization.
You must be new, we just had a massive optimization patch 4-5 months ago.
I'm not exactly new, I was there for the optimization.
And it was not so great. It was better, but only marginally.
And I have spent enough time reading FtD code to be able to say that there are a lot of room for optimization.
If you load a 30k blocks ship and let it idle in the middle of the sea, you'll have a lot of garbage generated in the memory.
That garbage needs to be collected when it reaches a given amount.
When the garbage is collected, Unity stops executing the game, clean the memory, and the game can continue to work. That explains a lot of the small freezes you constantly have in the game.

Did you know that even when all clips and autoloaders are full the ammo intakes are still executing the exact same code than if there was some empty clips?
The shells objects are created (the same shell is even created twice per ammo intake in fact...) and discarded in the same frame.
That generates a large amount of garbage, not counting all the code executed for absolutely nothing.
I managed to optimize the ammo intakes in a mod and I can feel the difference on vehicles that have a large amount of ammo intakes.

And be careful about using the word 'massive' about optimization.
Last time I optimized a software for work, it was executed 9.87 times faster after my work (I was upset not to reach 10, but that would have cost about 3 times the price to reach it, so...), and before I did anything it was already faster than the exact same software developped by a competitor...
FtD received a decent, nice and necessary optimization a few months ago, but not a 'massive' one (though, the work Nick did was massive and very important).
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2017-03-25, 09:30 AM
Post: #18
RE: Please Update the Game
Pretty much everyone agrees that the game needs some serious optimization, but I can understand why it's not a high priority when the devs are still working on getting all the features working properly.

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2017-03-25, 10:35 AM
Post: #19
RE: Please Update the Game
(2017-03-25 09:30 AM)TheShadowKick Wrote:  Pretty much everyone agrees that the game needs some serious optimization, but I can understand why it's not a high priority when the devs are still working on getting all the features working properly.
I agree at 50% on that.
In a 'standard work' environment I'd agree at 100%: never optimize too soon.


But here it's quite different.
In a standard software you usually need 2 things related to performances:
- responsiveness: the software must not freeze for more than 0.5s so that the user has an 'adequate' feeleing and don't think the software is crashed
- reasonable execution time

In a game you need more, because a 0.5s freezing is not a good thing.
Even 0.2s freezing is not acceptable if it's too often.

And Unity uses C# and the .NET framwork (well, it's Mono in fact but it's the same).
That framework uses an automatic memory management which makes it a lot easier for developpers to develop softwares.
But that comes with a price: garbage collection.
The dev can allocate memory and it will be cleaned automatically, but that takes some time.
That time is the main cause of stuttering in Unity games.

Usually in software, 95% of the time is spent in 5% of the code.
So you code everything, and then search for the 5% and fix them.
The problem with garbage is that it's cumulative, not instantaneous.
If a function generates 10 octets of garbage (nearly nothing), it may seem not to be a problem.
But if that function is called 40 times per second, it makes 400 octets.
And if there are 1000 such functions, it generates 400Ko per second, which is a lot.

So, in order to fix garbage generation you need to work in all the code.
If you wait to have finished the software, then 2 problems will arise:
- you don't want to modify 10 000 functions because you worked for 5 years on that and you're tired
- each modification you make may generate bugs, so you'll destroy your work and go back to months of bugs fixing...


Which is why garbage collection should be adressed at the very first stage of a game using Unity.
After that it's too late...
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Today, 02:52 AM (This post was last modified: Today 02:56 AM by Professor_Petaflop.)
Post: #20
RE: Please Update the Game
I'm just gonna pop in here and say that when I used to work on microjets, I could never actually get lua AI to work so I had to use the normal AI. I have never wanted to pull my hair out more than I did working with that AI. Getting it to do what you want on a microjet is like herding cats. I always wanted Nick to make the ai just a bit less dumb but I mean microjets aren't really viable anymore anyway.

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