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How damage will work
2017-03-22, 11:39 PM (This post was last modified: 2017-03-23 12:18 AM by Marmz.)
Post: #31
RE: How damage will work
(2017-03-22 11:52 AM)Tyr3n Wrote:  Hmm maybe look at this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardness

Brinell is about hardness of soft to medium metals up to Iron, not toughness. But the Rockwell system is usually used for very hard materials like high quality steels and stuff.

I am not english by native, so it is nigh impossible for me to explain it reasonably...

Indeed that may be interesting. Hardness using the Rockwell scale is apparently a quick and easy (and non destructive) way to determine whether or not a material has properly hardened following some treatment or another; not supremely relevant by itself, but in conjunction with the Ultimate Tensile Strength it might be useful in determining when the material starts to take damage. However, the Rockwell test gives us a dimensionless number at the end of the procedure, so it might be a pain to convert it into something that can be used by the game.



I'm of the opinion that if Nick has charts documenting pressure waves generated by explosions, it might be beneficial to stick with the Stress-Strain curve and the "stats" that are derived thereof, such as Yield Strength, Ultimate Tensile Strength, and perhaps Toughness and Resilience, too.

I've found a decent video that may help wrap one's head around what those "stats" represent in real life.

I've also searched a little on how "volume" is used in relation to Toughness, and I've reached the conclusion all tests tend to standardize volume and/or mass (and the shape and dimensions of the impact head, etc.) to avoid having to take into consideration the complex propagation of mechanical energy throughout the material Shy Fair enough...

So unless I'm missing out on some crucial detail, my original idea of using two cylinders at the point of impact (one for the armor and one for the projectile; of the same diameter but of different length) appears just as good as any. In the case of a round cannonball, the diameter could be close to the diameter of the cannonball in question, but as shell heads are introduced, that cylinder could become smaller than the diameter of the shell, for example. The length of the cylinder on the armor would be the apparent thickness; on the projectile it would be the projectile length (assuming a solid projectile; explosives, etc. probably shouldn't count in that case).

This will require pulling numbers out of one's posterior, so it's very good that Nick laid his hands on actual penetration tests for the armor plates he plans on including in the game, so that the numbers could be adjusted accordingly, if need be.

All in all, whatever system is used, I believe the projectile-armor interaction should allow the following results:

note: in the following examples, the impact energy is the kinetic energy of the projectile using the relative speed between the projectile and the armor. I have used the terms resilience and toughness as "stats" for both the armor and the projectile, to parallel their real life counterparts (though they could be called by another name), with the twist that these "stats" are multiplied by the volume of the impact cylinder (which is different for the armor and the projectile), so that the impact energy can be compared directly to the resilience and toughness of both the armor and the projectile.

- "Perfect" ricochet (no loss of projectile speed) : the impact energy is lower than both the projectile's and the armor's resilience. The armor is undamaged.

- "Imperfect" ricochet (loss of projectile speed) : the impact energy is higher than either the projectile's or the armor's resilience (while still lower than either's toughness). The material (projectile or armor) with the lowest resilience is the one which gets "deformed" (damaged), and the projectile loses energy proportional to the deformation energy (impact energy minus the deformed's resilience).

- Penetration : the impact energy is higher than the armor's toughness; loss of energy of the projectile is proportional to the armor's toughness (impact energy minus the armor's toughness).

- Projectile shatters : the impact energy is lower than the armor's toughness, but higher than the projectile's toughness; fragments may be spawned, with less total energy than the parent projectile.

- Special case : partial penetration : an "imperfect" ricochet case very close to a penetration. The projectile is embedded into the armor (disappears).

A block's "HP" or ability to absorb damage without being completely destroyed should be somewhat proportional to its toughness minus its resilience. In real-world terms, ductility would be the relevant metric, I believe. So that, for example, rubber has much more "HP" than a pane of glass : it can get penetrated multiple times before being completely destroyed whereas glass cannot.



Anyhow, this is obviously just food for thought; I'm not convinced myself that what I wrote down would even qualify as semi-realistic...
But hey, if this wall of text manages to inspire more than it confuses then it will not have been written in vain Tongue
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2017-03-23, 06:41 AM
Post: #32
RE: How damage will work
Nice ideas Marmz ;-)
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2017-03-23, 06:44 AM
Post: #33
RE: How damage will work
(2017-03-22 07:15 PM)killedalive Wrote:  Will you also consider organic armor? Perhaps mega sized deep sea creatures have these specific toughness levels in their bone, muscle, and flesh.


Imagine a fleet of fleshy, seething vessels across the horizon, where their keels are living flesh and bone. Being a living creature, the flesh would heal and regenerate. I know it's a disgusting, Lovecraftian notion, but it would certainly be something to think about! Ships getting sick or old, or succumbing to a plague along with its inhabitants!

Living ships could potentially bump PEGI and other content ratings limiting audience especially in some countries that punish selling games to under-age (in terms of content rating). That would be bad.

However I wouldn't mind some gore in the game.
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2017-03-23, 08:23 AM
Post: #34
RE: How damage will work
(2017-03-23 06:44 AM)Fernir Wrote:  However I wouldn't mind some gore in the game.

Watching an unshielded airship being ripped out by frag gatlins isn't enough gore?
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2017-03-23, 04:31 PM
Post: #35
RE: How damage will work
(2017-03-23 08:23 AM)Gladyon Wrote:  
(2017-03-23 06:44 AM)Fernir Wrote:  However I wouldn't mind some gore in the game.

Watching an unshielded airship being ripped out by frag gatlins isn't enough gore?

It's not really gore because it's not extremely violent nor it contains large quantities of blood. Therefore it falls in neither definition of gore.

However I might not be the best person to judge that ;-)
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2017-03-29, 07:22 AM
Post: #36
RE: How damage will work
(2017-03-22 11:39 PM)Marmz Wrote:  
(2017-03-22 11:52 AM)Tyr3n Wrote:  -snip me-

-snip you-

- "Perfect" ricochet (no loss of projectile speed) : the impact energy is lower than both the projectile's and the armor's resilience. The armor is undamaged.

- "Imperfect" ricochet (loss of projectile speed) : the impact energy is higher than either the projectile's or the armor's resilience (while still lower than either's toughness). The material (projectile or armor) with the lowest resilience is the one which gets "deformed" (damaged), and the projectile loses energy proportional to the deformation energy (impact energy minus the deformed's resilience).

- Penetration : the impact energy is higher than the armor's toughness; loss of energy of the projectile is proportional to the armor's toughness (impact energy minus the armor's toughness).

- Projectile shatters : the impact energy is lower than the armor's toughness, but higher than the projectile's toughness; fragments may be spawned, with less total energy than the parent projectile.

- Special case : partial penetration : an "imperfect" ricochet case very close to a penetration. The projectile is embedded into the armor (disappears).

A block's "HP" or ability to absorb damage without being completely destroyed should be somewhat proportional to its toughness minus its resilience. In real-world terms, ductility would be the relevant metric, I believe. So that, for example, rubber has much more "HP" than a pane of glass : it can get penetrated multiple times before being completely destroyed whereas glass cannot.



Anyhow, this is obviously just food for thought; I'm not convinced myself that what I wrote down would even qualify as semi-realistic...
But hey, if this wall of text manages to inspire more than it confuses then it will not have been written in vain Tongue

(2017-03-23 06:41 AM)Fernir Wrote:  Nice ideas Marmz ;-)

This I do want. "Partial Penetration" we need a radio voice telling you "that one didnt go through". Everyone who played world of ghost shells (tanks) knows what I mean. Big Grin

______________
Gladyon for Dev! Big Grin
(2017-06-19 03:02 PM)Guaibee Wrote:  Every once in a while I see a surge of replies on multiple threads from the same person...
spooling up reply surge...
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