Poll: Aim point selection
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Switch targets through important blocks
Switch targets through structural blocks
Switch targets through important blocks and turrets
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(Possibly an easy fix) Better and less cheesy aim point selection, AI simplification
2017-04-18, 09:59 AM
Post: #51
RE: (Possibly an easy fix) Better and less cheesy aim point selection, AI simplification
HEAT should not be much of a threat to turrets: if you have a competent strategy against spalling that is little threat, and no APS components are vulnerable except the open clips, which you should not be using if you care about durability anyway.

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2017-04-18, 10:16 AM
Post: #52
RE: (Possibly an easy fix) Better and less cheesy aim point selection, AI simplification
How about we just have it so that it doesn't target the ammo and have it target the literal centre of the vehicle? (not the centre of mass (well maybe))
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2017-04-18, 06:04 PM
Post: #53
RE: (Possibly an easy fix) Better and less cheesy aim point selection, AI simplification
(2017-04-18 09:23 AM)ThatZenoGuy Wrote:  For the love of...

Targeting guns only promotes gunspam on a gross level.

Instead of large, slower ROF guns, you will now only find 100mm spam-miniguns firing HEAT shells, which will basically 1 hit kill turrets.

Or worse, large lasers systematically 1 hitting turrets, or PAC, etc.
No.

I tried, and it doesn't work like this, except if you manage to have a gun with a very good precision, most of your shells will go over the turret.
And if you hit, you just hit the turret head, not the clips or autoloaders.
So the damages aren't explosives and most of the times it's some armor that is hit.


That said, I'd be curious to see a 100mm gun able to one-shot a 4-guns turret head armored with 2 layers of HA and a few shields.
If you can provide, I'd like to test it.
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2017-04-19, 04:16 AM
Post: #54
RE: (Possibly an easy fix) Better and less cheesy aim point selection, AI simplification
(2017-04-18 06:04 PM)Gladyon Wrote:  No.

I tried, and it doesn't work like this, except if you manage to have a gun with a very good precision, most of your shells will go over the turret.
And if you hit, you just hit the turret head, not the clips or autoloaders.
So the damages aren't explosives and most of the times it's some armor that is hit.


That said, I'd be curious to see a 100mm gun able to one-shot a 4-guns turret head armored with 2 layers of HA and a few shields.
If you can provide, I'd like to test it.

Turrets are repaired basically last on ships, ANY damage to them, is basically permanent in a battle.

Take out the barrels/mantlet, and that turret is dead.

You speak of extremes, how many turrets have 2 layers of heavy armour? Very very few.

A 100mm gun can very well "1 hit" (I mean a burst) a turret, if it uses stuff like sabot on the barrels, or HEAT to basically ignore armour.

And precision is an issue of AI being incompetent, not so much gun accuracy, guns always aim too high in this game.
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2017-04-19, 08:35 AM (This post was last modified: 2017-04-19 08:38 AM by Gladyon.)
Post: #55
RE: (Possibly an easy fix) Better and less cheesy aim point selection, AI simplification
(2017-04-19 04:16 AM)ThatZenoGuy Wrote:  
(2017-04-18 06:04 PM)Gladyon Wrote:  No.

I tried, and it doesn't work like this, except if you manage to have a gun with a very good precision, most of your shells will go over the turret.
And if you hit, you just hit the turret head, not the clips or autoloaders.
So the damages aren't explosives and most of the times it's some armor that is hit.


That said, I'd be curious to see a 100mm gun able to one-shot a 4-guns turret head armored with 2 layers of HA and a few shields.
If you can provide, I'd like to test it.

Turrets are repaired basically last on ships, ANY damage to them, is basically permanent in a battle.

Take out the barrels/mantlet, and that turret is dead.

You speak of extremes, how many turrets have 2 layers of heavy armour? Very very few.

A 100mm gun can very well "1 hit" (I mean a burst) a turret, if it uses stuff like sabot on the barrels, or HEAT to basically ignore armour.

And precision is an issue of AI being incompetent, not so much gun accuracy, guns always aim too high in this game.

It's true that the aim in this game is strange.
But it's not always too high. I had the opposite problem on one ship, all shells were coming under the target (a high altitude thruster-craft).
I changed the detection sliders to give them less time to do their calculations and suddenly the problem was fixed.
I think that there's more to these sliders than what I thought initially...


Back on topic, it's true that turrets are repaired last. It's by design in the code (I don't know why...).
And it's true that without barrels a turret is usually dead.
But sabot are usually ineffective against turrets because they are usually in one of the most shielded part of the ship.
And the fact that targeting turrets isn't overpowered remains.
In fact, from the battles I did I had several times the opposite result.
I mean, you win faster by targeting the ammo/AI (standard aimpoint) against a Thyr than by targeting its turret heads.
It comes from the number of missed shots (the turret heads of the Thyr are very thin, it's very easy to lose shells by firing too high, while it's hard to miss its internals as it is so large a ship).

But it's more fun to target the weapons first with the main guns, and the detection/LAMS with the secondaries (that i s very efficient, most of the time I win because the Neter vehicles do not have enough redundancy in their detection equipments).
So, even if targeting weapons is less efficient, I'll continue to do it.


And about the priorities of the repairs, that can be fixed, which explain why I forgot about that. I haven't used vanilla repair priorities for several months... The barrels on my main turrets are always repaired in top priority.
But that's for another thread.


[edit]
You should really try custom aimpoint.
You'll be able to experiment and see for yourself if it's better or not according to your own needs.
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2017-04-19, 01:05 PM
Post: #56
RE: (Possibly an easy fix) Better and less cheesy aim point selection, AI simplification
You're assuming vanilla ships have uberstacked shields and turret heads, they don't.

Most PLAYER ships don't, either.

Hell, a fair amount lack shields.

Next patch, shields won't be 100 immune to AP rounds, so sabot will gain some traction.

And HEAT ignores shields anyway, 5 decent HEAT rounds on a turret head, and it's dead, unless it has ABSURD amounts of armour on it.

CRAM HE will destroy a turret's barrels regardless, so now CRAM can 1 hit super armoured turrets...

Targeting enemy guns only promotes the usage of smaller, more rapid fire guns, rather than few heavy hitting ones, because armour in this game WON'T save you, it only delays the inevitable.

And again, PAC ignores armour and shields, so now you have literal hitscan weapons 1 hitting enemy guns.
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2017-04-19, 01:35 PM (This post was last modified: 2017-04-19 01:35 PM by benzo711.)
Post: #57
RE: (Possibly an easy fix) Better and less cheesy aim point selection, AI simplification
How about we just have it so that it targets the centre of the vehicle!?
(or centre of mass. But that wouldn't be as good because it isn't actually the centre depending on how you build)
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2017-04-20, 09:10 PM
Post: #58
RE: (Possibly an easy fix) Better and less cheesy aim point selection, AI simplification
(2017-04-19 01:35 PM)benzo711 Wrote:  How about we just have it so that it targets the centre of the vehicle!?
(or centre of mass. But that wouldn't be as good because it isn't actually the centre depending on how you build)

And spawn a new meta of flying Donuts? does that seem like a good idea to you?

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2017-04-20, 09:39 PM
Post: #59
RE: (Possibly an easy fix) Better and less cheesy aim point selection, AI simplification
(2017-04-20 09:10 PM)spookywaggon Wrote:  
(2017-04-19 01:35 PM)benzo711 Wrote:  How about we just have it so that it targets the centre of the vehicle!?
(or centre of mass. But that wouldn't be as good because it isn't actually the centre depending on how you build)

And spawn a new meta of flying Donuts? does that seem like a good idea to you?

I don't think that doughnuts even have a centre.

Anyway, if that is an invalid solution then are we going to target turrets or are we not?
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