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Eagle Industries presents: The Battlecruiser HMS Overlord
2016-12-17, 08:12 AM
Post: #31
RE: Eagle Industries presents: The Battlecruiser HMS Overlord
Yes running efficient engines on full load consumes less fuel than running at lower loads, for various reasons... I'll be looking forward to the engine when it's released!

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2016-12-17, 10:18 AM
Post: #32
RE: Eagle Industries presents: The Battlecruiser HMS Overlord
I'll leave two engines for you here, the main engines used on the Overlord (1500 BPH each), which fit in a 16Lx5Wx4H slot, doing 800 ppf at low rpm to nearly 1500 ppf at high rpm.

The other is the engine I showed yesterday, and is primarily designed to be kept at high RPM only. This one fits in a 12Lx5Wx3H slot, doing close to 700 ppf at low RPM and near 2400 ppf at high rpm.


Attached File(s)
.blueprint  Eagle Industries 1500 BHP AE.blueprint (Size: 36.68 KB / Downloads: 20)
.blueprint  Eagle Industries 1000BHP-EGEN.blueprint (Size: 33.98 KB / Downloads: 20)
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2016-12-17, 10:39 AM
Post: #33
RE: Eagle Industries presents: The Battlecruiser HMS Overlord
I know you've focused on near-future (and quite stunning) builds, but more powerful engines would probably be worth a look. if you combine, for example an RTG+electric engine for unlimited cruise with a high-power carb engine for combat you could probably still maintain the current combat time (may have to increase fuel load, but this is a large ship.) you may also find it interesting to really dig into engine mechanics and between ramp settings and ACBs build a system that effectively balances engine loads to ensure you always get max efficiency.


For the record, modern military marine engines are optimized for volume efficiency (power to weight ratio). They are usually gas turbines (essentially aircraft turbojet engine cores). tons of fuel per hour is a bit beyond them, but they don't idle well and will burn through several dozen pounds of fuel an hour (translating to a few hundred gallons). The Abrams tank is a fuel guzzler for the same reason, it uses what is essentially a helicopter engine.

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2016-12-17, 11:00 AM
Post: #34
RE: Eagle Industries presents: The Battlecruiser HMS Overlord
For the 12Lx5Wx3H engine I read only 351 ppf.

If you want more efficient engines, I have made some highly efficient one in my battleship:
Topaz battleship (WIP) - Post #19

It's at 1689 ppf at high RPM and produce 7600 power for 28Lx7Wx3H, so it's a 13 PPBB engine.
And if you fill the gaps in the engine with fuel (as I did), you end up with a 13PPB engine that can work at full load for 4h20mn.
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2016-12-17, 11:21 AM (This post was last modified: 2016-12-17 11:26 AM by Eagle.)
Post: #35
RE: Eagle Industries presents: The Battlecruiser HMS Overlord
(2016-12-16 02:13 PM)Richard Dastardly Wrote:  If you're mostly relying on electric engines you can just ACB fuel engines to turn off when the battery charge is above a certain amount, which lets you use engines optimised for max RPM. I wouldn't do them *all* like that obviously because if you lose batteries it won't compensate, but hybridizing like that is something I've used pretty successfully.

Good tip on the ACB's actually, I'll be using that for the electric generators! The main engines providing the brunt of the power do not charge the generators at all, so that won't be an issue Smile

(2016-12-17 10:39 AM)Lincrono Wrote:  I know you've focused on near-future (and quite stunning) builds, but more powerful engines would probably be worth a look. if you combine, for example an RTG+electric engine for unlimited cruise with a high-power carb engine for combat you could probably still maintain the current combat time (may have to increase fuel load, but this is a large ship.) you may also find it interesting to really dig into engine mechanics and between ramp settings and ACBs build a system that effectively balances engine loads to ensure you always get max efficiency.

For the record, modern military marine engines are optimized for volume efficiency (power to weight ratio). They are usually gas turbines (essentially aircraft turbojet engine cores). tons of fuel per hour is a bit beyond them, but they don't idle well and will burn through several dozen pounds of fuel an hour (translating to a few hundred gallons). The Abrams tank is a fuel guzzler for the same reason, it uses what is essentially a helicopter engine.


Well, I did actually look into that for the Aegis, but at that time I was still unaware of the power of ACBs for engine control and so concluded that it would not be worth while. I'll first experiment on the Aegis and if it aids her combat fitness and overall running cost I might build a nuclear version of the Overlord as well. At this moment I'm still learning all the mechanics of FtD, so all your tips and tricks are really useful Smile

And yeah, I was aware of the nature of gas turbines, it would be great if gas turbines would eventually be added to this game though, as it would mean one could make even more design choices.

(2016-12-17 11:00 AM)Gladyon Wrote:  For the 12Lx5Wx3H engine I read only 351 ppf.
Eh?

Wait a minute. Why is their such a significant difference in looking at the ppf in the engine chart and in the vehicle info?

And what's ppbb?

I'll take a look at your ship Smile Thanks for the advice
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2016-12-17, 12:10 PM
Post: #36
RE: Eagle Industries presents: The Battlecruiser HMS Overlord
PPBB - power per bounding box

(2016-12-17 10:39 AM)Lincrono Wrote:  For the record, modern military marine engines are optimized for volume efficiency (power to weight ratio). They are usually gas turbines (essentially aircraft turbojet engine cores). tons of fuel per hour is a bit beyond them, but they don't idle well and will burn through several dozen pounds of fuel an hour (translating to a few hundred gallons). The Abrams tank is a fuel guzzler for the same reason, it uses what is essentially a helicopter engine.

Not terribly modern, but the 4x marine Olympus fit in the RN Type 42s ( and a lot of other RN ships of the period ) could burn 15t/hr. Those were the sprint engines rather than the cruise ones, but that's a 4-5k tonne vessel. I could calc the Type 45 with the intercoolers & so on which has way better SFC given it's all public, but doing fuel consumption calcs for turbines is not something I enjoy... apparently not enough for hot climates though.
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2016-12-17, 01:59 PM
Post: #37
RE: Eagle Industries presents: The Battlecruiser HMS Overlord
I will check them out once I'm home. 351PPF at full load corresponds to about 1 inline per carb, so there may be connection or heat issues (either that or the engine Q menu is completely wrong even at full load).

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2016-12-17, 03:26 PM (This post was last modified: 2016-12-17 03:31 PM by Guaibee.)
Post: #38
RE: Eagle Industries presents: The Battlecruiser HMS Overlord
Sorry for the double post. I've just taken a look at the engines. Unfortunately, the current meta favours very very (extremely) heavily the use of inline turbos for efficiency boost.

I see you have quite a lot of normally connected turbos (directly to the cylinder) for the engines, perhaps more than the number of inlines, but the efficiency boost each inline provides with full exhaust (3.93x) is more pretty much 3 normal turbos combined (1.31x), not to mention the efficiency boost for each carb is multiplicative (so if you have 2 inlines connected to a carb, it would be 3.93x3x93 times more efficient...) And even though you do have some inlines on the engine, they don't receive enough exhaust to max out their potential efficiency boost.

I've done some modifications to the 1000BHP engine: added some more cylinders on the side (with adapters), connected all the exhaust to 1 line to max them out, then run them through 2 inlines per carb (3 for 1 carb at both ends), resulting in a grand total of 2600 power and 1462PPF.

Please see attached for the engine described above. I'll also put your engines onto my platform (with credits of course), if anyone decides that inline meta is a problem and shifts the efficiency boost figures around (though with the attention drawn to fuel engines right now it is highly unlikely).


Attached File(s)
.blueprint  2600P 11x3x5 by Guaibee.blueprint (Size: 34.67 KB / Downloads: 19)

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2016-12-17, 03:50 PM (This post was last modified: 2016-12-17 04:06 PM by Eagle.)
Post: #39
RE: Eagle Industries presents: The Battlecruiser HMS Overlord
Cool, I'll have a look at the engine later, right now; the Thesis is calling.

I've done some work, but I'm not at all happy at the moment. I'll list the changes and upload the bp here, as I'll figure out what's going on and what to do about it.

- Added an extra layer of HA to the rear turret base, it is now far less vulnerable to torpedoes
- Added extra HA to the Mainframe, from the sides it now has a layer of metal and a layer of HA, the top has the metal replaced with LWA.
- Added extra HA to the main guns.
- Replaced the three forward engines (used as electric generators) with more powerful ones, increasing the power with 1400 bhp. Added ACBs to regulate the chargers.
- Tweaked the electric engines, so that the output deficit is a meager 88 (meaning a little overall discharge) whilst the total output has increased by increasing the efficiency. The 3000 bhp from the electric engines is turned into 3800 bhp of electric energy.
- Fiddled around with the engine management on all engines
- Added a total of 12 extra laser pumps to three of the LAMS
- Added eleven extra ammunition processors to the rear ammo storage and production, which has increased the damage output.

Now the reason why I'm not at all happy; overall fighting efficiency has increased, due to the better active defenses and the improved damage output. Missiles are now firing much faster, which makes it more difficult to negate with LAMS.
However, for some reason, enemies target their weapons at the center of the ship far more now, notably the Thyr. Where it would target the aft section of the ship before, it now pummels the midship with rounds, which it simply cannot endure. So whilst the overall performance has increased, it has actually decreased against some ships...


Attached File(s)
.blueprint  HMS Overlord.blueprint (Size: 1,003.57 KB / Downloads: 17)
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2016-12-17, 06:04 PM (This post was last modified: 2016-12-17 06:29 PM by Eagle.)
Post: #40
RE: Eagle Industries presents: The Battlecruiser HMS Overlord
I've just taken a look at your engine upgrade Guaibee, I never realized you could 'cheat' on using the carbs like that. That's ingenious, and also disturbing that the FtD physics work like that... Which, for an engineering game is just rediculous. I'll study your engine, perhaps even implement it in my ship! Thanks Smile

I've just rebuilt the main engines, which have - with an equal footprint - gone up from 1500 bhp to 2800 bhp. I'll be swapping out the engines later. With the extra power I'll be upping the shield strength, maybe improve the LAMS and will look into adding some extra shields on the main turrets and/or hull.
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