Poll: Would you like to see this unit being part of SD after steam optimizations?
Yes, even tough the size should bother me
Yes, but a bulwark sized laser thrustercraft should not even approach me in my nightmares unless it's nerfed
No, but I like the general shape and I'd like a smaller unit inspired by it to be part of SD
No, it's way too big and the shape reminds me of a huge uninspiring USB key, I wouldn't even like fight something smaller inspired by it
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[SD] [Heavy] [Godly 80 FP] Dominion replacement. Way too big? [WIP]
2016-12-30, 05:38 PM
Post: #21
RE: [SD] [Heavy] [Godly 80 FP] Dominion replacement. Way too big? [WIP]
(2016-12-29 12:22 PM)ARCAGNELL0 Wrote:  I was pondering the idea of replacing the backward facing laser turret with an ejector equipped low caliber multi-barrel inertial frag turret to satisfy the "at least two weapon types" requirement but I find it quite silly to be honest with you all. I can understand giving a smaller vehicle two weapon types since it helps a lot with making it able to take on most enemies but this laser system is so huge taking some combiners away and replacing them with cannons will only hurt it as very little damage could hamper the laser DPS with much more ease.

Thoughts on this?
One weapon easier to counter. Laser damage can be greatly redused by laser shield + smoke combo. But if you add missiles, enemy will need LAMs to counter them. But LAMs not working with smoke. Without smoke, laser damage will not reduced before shield hit and will do more damage and substract more battery power.

And i think you should nerf it speed. Anything that big should not be fast. I do not think it will be accepted in current state.
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2016-12-30, 06:16 PM (This post was last modified: 2016-12-31 12:13 AM by ARCAGNELL0.)
Post: #22
RE: [SD] [Heavy] [Godly 80 FP] Dominion replacement. Way too big? [WIP]
(2016-12-30 05:38 PM)killshoot Wrote:  
(2016-12-29 12:22 PM)ARCAGNELL0 Wrote:  I was pondering the idea of replacing the backward facing laser turret with an ejector equipped low caliber multi-barrel inertial frag turret to satisfy the "at least two weapon types" requirement but I find it quite silly to be honest with you all. I can understand giving a smaller vehicle two weapon types since it helps a lot with making it able to take on most enemies but this laser system is so huge taking some combiners away and replacing them with cannons will only hurt it as very little damage could hamper the laser DPS with much more ease.

Thoughts on this?
One weapon easier to counter. Laser damage can be greatly redused by laser shield + smoke combo. But if you add missiles, enemy will need LAMs to counter them. But LAMs not working with smoke. Without smoke, laser damage will not reduced before shield hit and will do more damage and substract more battery power.

And i think you should nerf it speed. Anything that big should not be fast. I do not think it will be accepted in current state.

Thank you for the feedback!

That laser is not counterable. It has maxed out wavefront adjusters so 50% of its damage potential will get thru no matter how many laser defences you have; no amounts of armor will reduce that damage since it's got 85AP. The only other way to reduce that percentage is to be underwater. I built the whole thing following the logic of creating something with massive hitscan DPS wich you can't defend yourself against but that you can somewhat reduce nevertheless; wavefront adjusted lasers were the best option.

Missiles are very block expensive and can now be easily countered by the combination of flares and decoys, you can even achieve 100% protection from missiles and torpedoes of any kind just with those. Mounting them on something that's already on the verge of 15000 blocks would be silly; not to mention the fact the Meteor has a laser/Missile combination already and I wanted this thing to be different from what SD godly currently has to offer. That said, I am pondering the option of giving it some cannons in Exchange of a portion of laser/engine stuff just to boost the DPS a bit.

As for the speed, I actually nerfed it as much as possible already, 50% of the propulsion ion thrusters in the back shuts down on one side to improve turn rate. Furthermore, don't forget the unit is stupidly big and heavy and it will take a lot of time to reach the cruise speed at spawn. You can pretty much hit it with every single weapon type in the game (Given you get thru the LAMS) but CRAM and simple weapons due to size and flight stability, that 80-100 m/s cruise speed is pretty much just flavour to make it act like a spaceship and not a hovercraft xD


Edit: updated the OP with a new version

-the detection setting somehow went back to default so I redid the improvements

I'm planning to do a bit of hull reshaping since it's got quite a lot of free space inside it I don't need.

   

Edit 2: I might also work a fair amount of time on stability, +/- 7m/s is still too much for my liking.

I do not apply murder to the vehicle, the murder has the vehicle built around it! -ARCAGNELL0

"If there is no struggle, there is no progress" -Frederick Douglass

Dango over flowers -Japanese idiom
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2017-01-01, 10:37 AM
Post: #23
RE: [SD] [Heavy] [Godly 80 FP] Dominion replacement. Way too big? [WIP]
I found a problem. When in combat, but not shooting(it can not shoot up and down), engines start explode. Maybe add some up/down lasers or lower burn rate if too much energy.
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2017-01-01, 11:56 AM (This post was last modified: 2017-01-01 11:56 AM by ARCAGNELL0.)
Post: #24
RE: [SD] [Heavy] [Godly 80 FP] Dominion replacement. Way too big? [WIP]
(2017-01-01 10:37 AM)killshoot Wrote:  I found a problem. When in combat, but not shooting(it can not shoot up and down), engines start explode. Maybe add some up/down lasers or lower burn rate if too much energy.

Noted, I'll try solving it. Thanks for the feedback!

I do not apply murder to the vehicle, the murder has the vehicle built around it! -ARCAGNELL0

"If there is no struggle, there is no progress" -Frederick Douglass

Dango over flowers -Japanese idiom
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2017-01-05, 07:53 PM (This post was last modified: 2017-01-05 07:56 PM by ARCAGNELL0.)
Post: #25
RE: [SD] [Heavy] [Godly 80 FP] Dominion replacement. Way too big? [WIP]
Updated OP with new version (v.192)

Changelog

-drastically improved altitude PID. The unit now won't exceeed 1 m/s of vertical speed once stabilized

-applied some more tweaks to detection

-applied some more tweaks to the AI system

-nerfed the top speed in a straight line a bit more to not make the unit overshoot too much after the first pass

-tweaked the ACBs controlling burn rate, it now should not kill its own engine when it's not able to fire the laser in combat. The fact pistons still damage themselfes a bit once the laser stops firing and the unit also lowers shield intensity is normal, passing from using 400k engine power to 20-30k is quite the shock and I can't do much about that.

Really happy about this update, it improved a lot of things.

I also took some time analyzing how to reshape the outer sections to eliminate the extra hull slices I don't need. It's doable but I'll need to reposition some thrusters and retweak the shielding a bit. Expect some results in a day or two.

I do not apply murder to the vehicle, the murder has the vehicle built around it! -ARCAGNELL0

"If there is no struggle, there is no progress" -Frederick Douglass

Dango over flowers -Japanese idiom
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2017-01-08, 06:12 AM (This post was last modified: 2017-01-08 06:14 AM by Hikari.)
Post: #26
RE: [SD] [Heavy] [Godly 80 FP] Dominion replacement. Way too big? [WIP]
Welp looking at the votes doesn't look to good.

It should be under 10k, thats suppose to be a hard rule. OW is suppose to be big. Only a few thing go pass 10k, even then I don't think they should. Mayjst is updating to get them all below it, allowing 1 or 2 here and there only makes more people use the same excuse "but its special".

Arc you're a good builder, I am sure you can get the same performance under 10k without hindering computer performance.

If thread is cancer, run awey quik and let dem otder pepple deep wit it.
-Lemming 2k16 (Inner grammar Nazi intensifies)
(2016-03-27 12:23 PM)BaronBaconeer Wrote:  8/10 Builds things. BIG things. Will possibly cause someone's computer to crash in the future.
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2017-01-08, 06:58 PM (This post was last modified: 2017-01-08 07:14 PM by ARCAGNELL0.)
Post: #27
RE: [SD] [Heavy] [Godly 80 FP] Dominion replacement. Way too big? [WIP]
(2017-01-08 06:12 AM)Hikari Wrote:  Welp looking at the votes doesn't look to good.

It should be under 10k, thats supposed to be a hard rule. OW is supposed to be big. Only a few things go past 10k, even then I don't think they should. Mayjst is updating to get them all below it, allowing 1 or 2 here and there only makes more people use the same excuse "but its special".

Arc you're a good builder, I am sure you can get the same performance under 10k without hindering computer performance.

I wouldn't exactly define a 73% of people who'd like this unit (even nerfed) in the campaign with "doesen't look good"; maybe that's just the optimist in me.

There rarely is anything worth more than 45FP on godly level that's under 10.000 blocks, at least on GT/SD, that's simply because they're both factions that usually are steering away from spamming inertial shells all day long and they actually need to be big to perform well; I agree with you nevertheless as the fact some units are too big for their own good has been an issue for more than a year and is still pending. I'd personally like to have a "give faction units over X blocks 0% chance to spawn" somewhere in the campaign settings.

OW is big and the Bulwark is still the biggest unit there is Volume/block-wise, the D0minion is right behind the Thyr (Thyr is 34k+ and the DOminion is 33k+), not to mention the fact it does not throw absurd amounts of shells shells/missiles at the enemy like 75% of the latest factions' godly units seem to be doing lately may even make it lag less in combat.

You see the problem with the "I'm sure you can build a 10k unit able to be 80FP godly" statement is that the smaller the unit has to be and the more I'd have to stick to the meta to make it perform as its FP value might suggest, and I don't want to build a Cezar/Kobold carbon copy (function-wise) in SD aswell, not now that the faction as a Whole finally started finding its own identity. A unit that does not spam APS systems/does not go ludicrously fast/does not bounce around/does not abuse EMP/Piercing PAC/ looks good simply can't stay under 10k blocks and still perform at those levels for many simple reasons:

-Lasers have pathetic DPS and block efficiency considering they also require a lot fo engine power to function at all, not to mention you just need to put some smoke deployers and you'll gain that (minimum) 30 seconds invincibility that easily allows anything with enough APS/PAC spam to take said laser unit down.

-Missiles are sort of the same, they at least don't require engine power to function, are slightly harder to counter than lasers but also lag quite a bit.

-I'd still have to give it a hull made of metal backed up by a layer of HA right behind it to make it resistant enough to compensate for the pathetic laser DPS and that'd mean to also install more thrusters and more roll/pitch control wich would end up heavily reducing internal space making the chance to install a decent laser system more and more unlikely.

-The fact it uses lasers forces me to use the god-awful laser absorption shields that not only consume a TON of engine power even if they're not getting shot at but they also provide less laser defemce % than smoke and can get overloaded. If the unit was smaller I'd still need at least 7 intensity of shield and 300 blocks Worth of turbines to charge the batteries, further reducing internal space for actual weapon system to hit the enemy with

-SD requires very high levels of detailing wich heavily inflates the block count. SS can afford to look smooth in the underwater hull areas and GT can afford to look a bit blocky (wich favours beaming); but SD can't do either. Everything needs to look aggressive, smooth but also with a lot of perpendicular/outward going bracing, all of wich has to happen on basically ALL the vehicle surface. If I tried building it smaller I'd have to dedicate even more block count % to said detailing wich would again reduce the space left for weapons/defence systems


P.S: I'm updating the OP with a further improvement of the unit's aesthetics. I'm also getting ready to converting that back turret into a 3 barrel high velocity cannon turret to fulfill the "2 weapon types" requirement. Then there'salso the matter of doing some steam pipe optimizations in the internals to both save blocks and reduce ramp up times but that's one of the last things I'll do. Imma edit this thread witht he changelog once I'm done with updating the OP.


Edit: Updated the OP with a new version

Changelog:

-cut the cavities in two and added an extra set of couplers in the back, this is to increase weapon redundancy and not make them as easily disabled by HEAT shells as before

-rearranged the small detection turret and the radar detection spinners to fit the new aesthetics

-put a lot of polish in the middle section of the craft, now there basically is no flat spot anymore and the unit looks much better. I also used this to trim down the unused internal space by a big margin

       


-rearranged the material storage

-removed the previous turbines and installed new ones, the new ones are 6 3x3x9 systems, situated at the very back

-removed all upward facing thrusters as they now are useless with the intergration of a PID system

I do not apply murder to the vehicle, the murder has the vehicle built around it! -ARCAGNELL0

"If there is no struggle, there is no progress" -Frederick Douglass

Dango over flowers -Japanese idiom
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