Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 4 Votes - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Poke my boat! WIP: Badger, S-class Updated: 18/2/17
2016-12-04, 08:54 AM (This post was last modified: Yesterday 03:16 PM by Richard Dastardly.)
Post: #1
Poke my boat! WIP: Badger, S-class Updated: 18/2/17
I do not consider myself a particularily good builder. Having got that out of the way, the best way to learn is to build anything and then have someone better pull it to bits, so I envisage this thread being updated occasionally with new subjects. Really we need a pinned thread where anyone can submit vessels for criticism.

Warning: I design ships with my full avatar faction skills in place - currently I have 100 points in Gun Smiths which halves inaccuracy, so YMMV when testing.

Catalogue: - due a prune soon! I should point out that this doesn't *quite* invalidate the one-ship-per-thread guideline as *all* of them grew from the same base vessel & if you look at the internals you'll find much of them to be identical.

Battle fleet
  • Destroyers
    - S-class flotilla leader: 128k, 12.0k vol, 2x456mm 4m, dual 52mm 1m, 24x 9-block torps, 12x 7-block missiles. Dual shields, dual 3 node LAMS - 18/2/17
    .blueprint  RD S-class Destroyer leader.blueprint (Size: 285.19 KB / Downloads: 16)
    - T-class: 101k, 9.2k vol, 2x190mm 2m, 52mm 1m, 8x8-block torps, 10x6-block missiles. Dual shields, single 7 node LAMS. Updated 28/1/17
    .blueprint  RD T-class destroyer.blueprint (Size: 240.11 KB / Downloads: 17)
  • Corvettes
    - C-class: 80k, 7.6k vol, 1x190mm 2m, dual 52mm 1m, 12x8-block torps. Dual shields, single 7 node LAMS. Updated 7/2/17
    .blueprint  RD C-class Corvette.blueprint (Size: 196.82 KB / Downloads: 5)
    - Mink II/M-class AAA: 89k, 8.2k vol, 2x 2x121mm 1m, 52mm 1m, 6x8-block torps, 14x6 block missiles. Dual shields, single 6 node LAMS - updated 28/1/17
    .blueprint  RD Mink II-class AAA Corvette.blueprint (Size: 233.99 KB / Downloads: 20)

Independent / small fleet
  • Destroyers
    - Wolf class: 129k, 2x 190mm 2m, dual 52mm 1m, 12x 8-block torps, 12x 7-block missiles. Dual shields, dual 3 node LAMS. - updated 11/2/17
    .blueprint  RD Wolf-class Destroyer.blueprint (Size: 287.13 KB / Downloads: 39)
  • Corvettes
    - Wolverine II class - general patrol: 90k, 2x146mm 2m, 52mm 1m, 8x8-block torps, 10x6-block missiles. Dual shields, single 6 node LAMS. Double hull. - updated 11/2/17
    .blueprint  RD Wolverine II.blueprint (Size: 223.66 KB / Downloads: 14)
    - Badger class - general patrol: 68k, 2x 150mm 1m, 52mm 1m, 6x6 block missiles. 2x8 block torpedos, 3 node LAMS, Single shields. Double hull. - updated 18/2/17
    .blueprint  RD Badger-class Corvette.blueprint (Size: 188.77 KB / Downloads: 24)
    - Alpaca II class - missile/torpedo/first boat: 50k, 2x52mm, 6x6 block torps, 14x 6 block missiles, double hull, single shields, small 3-node LAMS. Very WIP. - updated 15/2/17
    .blueprint  RD Alpaca II-class MTB.blueprint (Size: 141.41 KB / Downloads: 13)

Prototypes & Experimentals
  • Camel II class Corvette - missile/torpedo/first boat: 51k, 2x52mm 1m, 52mm 1m, 6x6 block torps, 14x 6 block missiles, double hull, single shields, small 3-node LAMS. Alpaca rebuild - updated 21/2/17
    .blueprint  RD Camel II-class MTB.blueprint (Size: 152.54 KB / Downloads: 2)

Obsolescent - usable but outdated ships, not being actively updated.
    - Wolverine Mk I corvette - general patrol: 82k, 1x146mm 2m, 150mm 1m, 52mm 1m, 6x8-block torps, 6x6-block missiles. Dual shields, single 4 node LAMS. Double hull. - updated 15/1/17
    .blueprint  RD Wolverine-class Corvette.blueprint (Size: 208.62 KB / Downloads: 22)
    - Otter class - general patrol/first boat: 59k, 2x 150mm 1m, 52mm 1m, 6x6 block missiles. 2x8 block torpedos, Single shields. Single hull. - updated 15/1/17
    .blueprint  RD Otter-class Corvette.blueprint (Size: 157.88 KB / Downloads: 34)

Obsolete - for interest only

-----

Deployment:

* Finished steamrolling godly SS, two fleets of:

- 2x S-class
- 4x T-class
- 2x Mink
- 1x Wolverine II or 1x C-class
- 1x unnamed bombardment corvette

and one T-class + 2x Mink parked in a river.

Mink is a specialist heavy anti-aircraft unit - all the ships have light AAA and slow thrustercraft or airships are not a problem for main weapons - so it generally didn't get much use outside of LH and SS - however it was so useful vs SS fast jets that I added a second one to each fleet.

S+T class flotillas thrashed everything they've faced up against - a T-class even took an entire Cesar volley at fairly close range & the damage didn't affect it's combat performance. I've only run tests vs a Thyr - the usual S+3T combination will easily sink one, but it'll lose a few turrets so not the cheapest of things. If I can't get the 4th ship in then it might get costly.

The fleet Wolverine got a fair bit of use as it's often just sufficiently low volume to slip into a battle, but I'm working on a lower volume fleet ship again ( C-class ) with the 190mm turret - it's about the same DPS as both the 146mm on the Wolverine - and more torpedo tubes at the cost of the missiles. It's not a very rounded design but is definitely a good fit for my battle fleet.

Testing a bombardment ship, so many times I could have easily won a battle vs static stuff by lobbing shells over a hill - the current WIP has won two battles on it's own already, but I'm having problems with CRAM shells despawning.

-----

Destroyers:

- Wolf-class destroyer

Dependable if fairly large volume ship. The LAMS does actually take care of a fair number of shells - quite a lot of an Excalibur volley for instance, if taken broadside - but don't try and slug it out with a Thyr. Currently being retired in my fleets in favour of the S-class, if I ever need an independent ship or a very small fleet I will still look at it.

[Image: 31364961234_e15610cd07_b.jpg]


.blueprint  RD Wolf-class Destroyer.blueprint (Size: 287.13 KB / Downloads: 39) - 19/1/17

Features:

* Double hull, mostly metal-alloy-gap-alloy, inner bulkhead is metal or HA in places. Deck is generally metal-alloy, sometimes metal-metal.

* 2x 190mm 2m turret, sustained ROF 74rpm, set to 88 rpm as the natural breaks in firing from maneuvers let it reload just fine. Small rail assist lets it use 4-warhead shells, so frag rounds do about 21k damage. 1/5 shells currently set as HEAT.
* Dual 52mm light turret firing i-frag rounds at 520m/s, 560rpm. Lightly armoured to keep up traverse speed.
* 12x 8-block torpedo tubes firing 3 prop 6 exp warhead torps. Not terribly long range, but they have enough fuel that they time out before running out. The offside torps occasionally have a habit of hitting the boat at the moment once they've looped around.
* 12x 7-block missiles, 2 EMP and 2 frag warheads.

* Dual 4Q LAMS with three nodes each, 300 nominal damage per shot. With all ammo processors & all LAMS nodes firing on top of the rail draw power can get a bit tight, but usually there seems to be enough.
* Dual layered 3.0 reflect shielding round the main hull -superstructure shielding needs a little attention ( I'm having real trouble finding somewhere to place shields for the mast sensors ) & everything needs tidying. As of v168 is now switchable to laser absorb by changing the value of one ACB.

--
- r183 11/2/17 - extra rudders
- r182 19/1/17 - 8x4 block interceptor/decoy torps and a couple more ammo processors. Decoys are unfortunately expensive, price up to 129k
- r179 13/1/17 - and now using the right base version.
- r178 13/1/17 - triple sonobouys, added a couple more holders to cope. Passive radar.
- r177 13/1/17 - double sonobouys, added lateral launchers at the bow.
- r171 9/1/17 - replaced the rear turret with a clone of the front, so it'll only hit anything really fast with a lot of luck. It is rather more effective vs large ships though. Stole a little from the LAMS but not enough to be noticeable.
- r168 7/1/17 - set up alternate laser absorb shielding ( just uses all of them ) - to switch, change the value of the green ACB in the back of the main mainframe room ( under the mast/bridge ) to 9. Set to 11 to go back to reflect. Engine battery charge amount in shield mode is not very refined yet. Tuned engine ramp times, discovered some extra power, so added another node per LAMS to cover fore/aft better, pushed LAMS up to 300dmg. You can use the rear doors again! Put the ejectors back on the rearmost missile launchers.
- r165 7/1/17 - stripped unnecessary AP from LAMS, added another rear shield, closed a gap in side shields, reduced cost
- r163 6/1/17 - more EMP protection, LAMS balanced, reduced rail draw for the 190mm gun, two missile launchers removed because they kept fouling the rear turret, more sensor redundancy, price around 125k.
- r151 - more muniwarners at the stern, aborted attempt at some cosmetics ( I don't think I'll bother ).
- r147 - filled a few holes
* r145 - stretched for additional engine & extra torps

-----

- S-class destroyer leader

It looks like a Wolf, because it is - with big guns and twice as many torpedo tubes. Heavy artillery support for T-class flotillas, the slow fire rate & thus railgun recharge means there's always spare power to refill batteries. At some point I may add a remotely powered drone or two.

[Image: 32820987612_8186f57a0c_b.jpg]


.blueprint  RD S-class Destroyer leader.blueprint (Size: 285.19 KB / Downloads: 16) - 18/2/17

Features:

as Wolf ( above ) aside from:
* 2x 456mm turrets firing 4m shells with light rail assist. Mostly 3 warhead HEAT with occasional utility shell ( currently frag/EMP mix ).
* 24x9-block torpedos, all explosive.

--
- r193 - doubled the number of torpedo tubes.
- r190 - initial - 23/1/17

Issues:

as Wolf. Torpedos may need another propellor.

-----

- T-class: - 28/1/17

An attempt to get a lower volume Wolf, to squeeze an extra ship into my combat allocation. A 12m longer Wolverine with the Wolf turrets and a little more engine, a couple more torpedo tubes and missile launchers. At 101k and 9.2k volume it's significantly cheaper & more importantly significantly smaller than the Wolf; it does perform best in a fleet however.

[Image: 32326691121_70bdcd3174_b.jpg]


.blueprint  RD T-class destroyer.blueprint (Size: 240.11 KB / Downloads: 17) - 28/1/17

* Features
- 2x190mm firing 2m shells at 88rpm. Mostly four warhead i-frag, some four warhead i-HEAT.
- 1x52mm lightweight turret firing 1m i-frag at high-ish velocity
- 8x8-block sonar torpedos, all explosive
- 10x6-block fairly slow missiles, emp/emp/frag
- double layered shields
- 7 node LAMS; there is enough engine to keep three nodes firing, more will start draining battery via electric engines fast. If in a fleet, make sure it's sharing electrical power
- comprehensive decoy system; 3 sonar bouy launchers with 3 bouys per round, 6x interceptor torps with sonar bouys as longer range distraction. The usual radar + flares.

Issues: turret pop due to thin deck, needs some topical lightening. Missiles may need one more block now it's using longer range main weapons. A bit slower than I'd really like. Odd bugs in the power management, something occasionally drains tons of battery ( I suspect LAMS using more than three nodes ).

--
-r174 - 28/1/17 - extra CPU + IVT
-r173 - 27/1/17 - bow LAMS nodes.
-r172 - cosmetics. If there was something else, I can't find it.
-r169 - fixed some shield gaps. Starting to think it needs more engine.
-r168 - put the flag back! replaced missing muniwarners
-r166 - some minor corrections
-r164 - Initial

------------

Corvettes:

C-class battlefleet corvette: a lower volume ship to replace the generalist Wolverine II in my battle fleets; uses one 190mm turret from the T-class, the dual 52mm AAA turret from S-class/Wolf and 12 8-block torpedo tubes, installed into the Wolverine II hull with the bridge from the T-class. As a modular cannibalization of other ships it was pretty fast to build but it does still need some internal work. No missiles at all, so not really a rounded ship for independent action.

80k cost, 7.6k volume, and I won't fill any of the rear deck with cosmetic superstructure because the volume limit matters.

[Image: 32003151884_bcd8f00169_b.jpg]


.blueprint  RD C-class Corvette.blueprint (Size: 196.82 KB / Downloads: 5)

Issues: internal structuring not complete. Is a bit boring.

---
- r139 - initial

------

Wolverine II-class corvette: Gunboat originally based on Badger with double hull, 146mm turrets firing 2m shells, single 52mm AAA, dual layer shields, four-node LAMS and six torpedo tubes. 90k. Has successfully killed all WF godly craft. This hull has fairly weak bows - it's very rare it gets hit in the bow so I've never put priority on armour there and having a hollow bow helps keep speed up, but a torpedo hit will make a fairly substantial hole. - note Mk II has some extra bow armour.

Mk II uses the Mink hull for extra missiles trading 4 tubes for extra engine power & two more torpedo tubes. Both main turrets are now 146mm firing 2m shells. Being replaced by a more fleet oriented vessel in my battle fleets, but is a great ship for independent fights like the single faction campaigns albeit it's only 10k less than a T-class.

[Image: 32326690191_90e3572f77_b.jpg]
Mk I fighting for the SS -
[Image: 31907618912_849252ce73_b.jpg]

Issues - LAMS needs more fiddling, haven't found the sweet spot for engine battery amount yet.


.blueprint  RD Wolverine II.blueprint (Size: 223.66 KB / Downloads: 14) - 28/1/17

--
- r160 11/2/17 - additional rudders, slight change in deck armour
- r159 28/1/17 - extra CPU & IVT
- r158 28/1/17 - bow LAMS nodes
- r157 26/1/17 - tweaked decoys, added a couple of air pumps
- r156 21/1/17 - replaced flagpost...
- r155 21/1/17 - Mk II, both turrets 146mm/2m, more torpedos, missiles, interceptor torps added, cost 89k, small volume increase.
- r138 13/1/17 - triple sonobouys
- r127 8/1/17 - some fiddling with the engine made a 4-node LAMS seem workable. Some detail changes & bugfixes, made sure the sensor mainframe had enough CPU.
- r121 - replaced the engine, 2000 more power, slight accuracy increase for the front gun.
- r120 - Extra sensors & tuned the AAA settings a bit
- r118 - Front turret now 146mm firing 2m shells at 81rpm; very light rail assist to get a little accuracy in. Two more torpedo tubes in the lower bow, and a little EMP protection added. Decks under the main turrets are now two blocks thick.

--
- Mink II-class AAA corvette - 28/1/17

Wolverine variant, replaces the 146mm and 150mm turrets with dual 121mm firing 1m shells at just under 500m/s ( with my fleet gunnery bonus ). Missiles replaced with short-range more maneuverable variants, otherwise as Wolverine. Mk II Mink adds a 4m hull stretch & 8 more missile launchers - unsure if it's worth the extra volume yet.

[Image: 32977167175_d533d86408_b.jpg]


.blueprint  RD Mink II-class AAA Corvette.blueprint (Size: 233.99 KB / Downloads: 20) - 28/1/17

Issues - missiles seem to launch and turn completely the wrong direction ( seems to be a bug ). AI needs to somehow be set up to close with aircraft but stay away from ships - ideas on a postcard please. Having a nightmare setting up gun AI sensors, doesn't appear to be a happy place for good tracking, so I need to write a predictor for the boat. Until then consider it a bullet-hose. Has proved it's worth in the campaign vs LH fast aircraft, seems quite effective vs SS in trials. Pointless vs thrustercraft seeing as main weapons can usually shoot them.

--
- r156 28/1/17 - IVT
- r155 28/1/17 - bow LAMS nodes
- r154 26/1/17 - tweaked decoys, added a couple of air pumps, tweaked main turret AI
- r151 19/1/17 - uprated LAMS
- r150 18/1/17 - anti-torp decoy torpedos
- r149 13/1/17 - 3 sonobouys per round.
- r148 13/1/17 - Mink II - 4m stretch adds 8 more missile rails for about 3k cost. Tweaked the sonobouys to have two bouys per round.
- r141 12/1/17 - Corrected again to use the continuous fire calculations - now 360rpm per turret. A little more recoil reduction.
- r140 12/1/17 - Corrected miscalculated turret RPM - now double, 121mm turrets now fire at 640rpm up from 320rpm, and recoil reduced.
- r139 12/1/17 - Added some HA round the turret bases, should be a bit more resistant to torpedo hits.
- r138 11/1/17 - fixed unattached ammo clips
- r137 11/1/17 - new turret cap, hopefully less prone to pop. A little bow armour. No predictor yet.
- r134 8/1/17 - pushed main gun calibre to 121mm
- r133 8/1/17 - more aggressive roll PID & a little more anti-recoil on the main turrets, slight tracking changes. Other issues seem rather deeper.

--

-Badger-class: 68k,
2x 150mm turrets, 52mm AAA, 6x6 block missile launchers loaded with mostly EMP, 2x8 block torpedos. 3-node LAMS. Spaced armour - the hull is the basis for the Mink/Wolverine with single layered shields and no hollow keel. Not quite an affordable starter boat, not far off though.

[Image: 32594273510_9da32978cd_b.jpg]


.blueprint  RD Badger-class Corvette.blueprint (Size: 188.77 KB / Downloads: 24) - 18/2/17

Current version using a somewhat experimental superstructure, I might change the bridge again - I was trying to differentiate it from the others slightly ( like the older bridge area was ) but I don't think it's quite worked.

Changelog
----
r113 - rebuilt superstructure
r105 - more conventional LAMS
r102 - corrected LAMS oops
r101 - upgraded LAMS
r100 - more ammo processors, reconnected the AAA turret LWC...
r99 - micro-LAMS and a small internal tidy
r97 - repaired the 52mm ammo controller again.
r96 - experimental decoy interceptor torpedos.
r94 - upgrades applied to Badger. Additional muniwarners on Badger.
r93 - triple sonobouys.
r92 - changed sonobouys to double load in an attempt to make more effective anti-torp defenses. Swapped the dual 36mm AAA gun to single 52mm. Added 8 block torp tubes.
r90 - found the small thing - had broken the AAA ammo controller. Fixed Otter & Badger.
r89 - something small. If you discover what changed, please let me know.
r88 - revamped turret armouring ( also ~1k cost increase )
r84 - increase in ammo muzzle velocity at the cost of some RPM - may revert this. The boat's ammo processors might get a chance at keeping up with the guns now though. Fixed sensor priority which reset itself yet again.
r83 - new bows, which might get reworked again, offering more bouyancy. AI tweaks to try and get it to zigzag a bit, unfortunately they also apparently made it occasionally suicidal.
r76 - less idiocy
r75 - Had a feeling torps were wiping out the LWC under the main turrets rather than the actual turret sometimes, so moved the LWC to the actual turret & put them on HA blocks. Added a mainframe to the bouy holder block as a test.
r73 - replaced some mysteriously vanishing blocks - nothing important, just the card slot for the front turret(!) & an air pump. Why does it do this...
r72 - More countermeasures fiddling, front sonobouy launchers now horizontal.
r69 - extra flare launcher pair, missiles moved so the AAA gun doesn't block when idle, spare roll thrusters, one pair of missiles now rocket-assisted torps ( definitely a WIP ). Occasional 150mm round is now prox-EMP.
r63 - slight lightening work done & a little power management.

-----

- Alpaca II class MTB
50k, 2x52mm turret, 6 lateral launch 6 block torps, 14 6 block missile tubes. 4 active sonar decoy torpedos, 3 node LAMS. Major WIP, I need help with cost reduction. I'm not actually sure where this hull came from, it appears to be 2m narrower than the others.

[Image: 32762609482_9c600171a0_b.jpg]


.blueprint  RD Alpaca II-class MTB.blueprint (Size: 141.41 KB / Downloads: 13) - 15/2/17

Issues - Still WIP, not completely focused yet. Could do with being mildly cheaper. I'm not very happy with it, it feels like it's lacking punch - it can at least shoot at everything it comes across I guess, but it's DPS is low.

Changelog
----
- r89 - a couple more redundant sensors
- r88 - turret caliber now 52mm - reload calc is bust so it's fire rate may be clamped a bit low. Odd bits of tidying elsewhere.
- r84 - fixed rear torpedo fence so regained some speed, added a couple more rudders.
- r83 - reconnected some missile launchers, removed fuel to save ~2k
- r82 - pruned some excessive bouy holders
- r79 - rear LAMS node
- r78 - more conventional LAMS
- r74 - fixed ammo, more muniwarners
- r72 - removed redundant bits, fiddled with shields
- r71 - major changes: bows rebuilt with much the same ram shape as the newer ships, engine & LAMS from the latest Badger added, front turret raised 1m so it shouldn't shoot itself now. Cost up 3k, help.

-----

Prototypes & Experimentals

- Camel II class Corvette - Alpaca II rebuild, adds the 52mm single gun turret from most of the other ships, hull 4m shorter and a lot of alloy replaced by stone. Unfortunately a bit too much stone, I think - it rides very low in the water. Suggestions taken for where to cut some corners. 51k right now, adding alloy will knock that up slightly so some cost needs to be removed elsewhere and I think it needs a couple more shields. Considering a larger caliber front turret but currently all guns use the same ammo.

[Image: 32792133682_df656f5b01_b.jpg]


.blueprint  RD Camel II-class MTB.blueprint (Size: 152.54 KB / Downloads: 2) - 21/2/17

--
- r104 - 21/2/17 - shuffled some materials around, static draft a bit shallower.
- r102 - initial trial version


-----
Obsolescent - role or fleet place replaced by newer craft

- Wolverine Mk I: 82k, double shielded Badger with LAMS & 146mm front turret firing 2m shells. Replaced by Wolverine II/T-class destroyer.


.blueprint  RD Wolverine-class Corvette.blueprint (Size: 208.62 KB / Downloads: 22)

- Otter-class corvette - updated 15/1/17 - 59k, hull based on the Fox. Shield placement needs work. Battery backup & ACB shutdown of systems at low power, so it'll take a little longer to capsize hopefully. Fairly vulnerable to damage, but packs a heavy punch and is just affordable as a first boat if you strip the starting assets. Replaced by Alpaca MTB and the passage of time.

https://flic.kr/p/NVAVBZ


.blueprint  RD Otter-class Corvette.blueprint (Size: 157.88 KB / Downloads: 34) - 15/1/17

Changelog - see Badger to r95

-----
Obsolete - for interest/reference

- Fox-class starter corvette. Something small & relatively uncomplicated. As of 2017 this is somewhat weak, but I'll leave it around for reference or the thread is going to be somewhat disjointed.

https://flic.kr/p/PLB4uS


.blueprint  RD Fox-class Corvette.blueprint (Size: 127.85 KB / Downloads: 44)

Features: -

* 150mm autocannon firing 1m inertial frag/inertial HEAT at 288rpm
* 300mm railgun firing 4m AP / 4m inertial HEAT at ~600m/s - I'm not really sure what to fire out of this thing to be honest.
* 36mm dual light turret firing inertial frag
* large amount of reflect shielding at 3.2
* Steam/electric power with emergency RTG - start a fight with full power, the steam engine ramps up just about in time.
* Mostly metal-alloy hull, some metal-metal and occasional metal-HA
* Cost - 44.4k

A starter boat is a *very* different beast now - having checked out just what you can extract from the starter zone in two hours, I found your budget now is quite spectacular. I replace the starter fortress with one with basically just the miners, an efficient engine and the refinery ( you cannot have steam-only mining, it doesn't work when you pull it ) to grab an extra 11k, and I can spawn one of these boats after about an hour. The rest of the next hour is used extracting enough to fuel it and pop a little strat antenna balloon; keeping a decent reserve of resource on board is essential, the last run gave me a Conger as the opening opponent!

Why a railgun? I wanted a big calibre gun, but without an enormous barrel so rail assist was going to be something I was going to attempt anyway. I looked a bit harder at the situation, what with steam turbines & needing battery anyway, and it seemed more sensible to just go the whole way - there's no need for gauge coolers now, so there's more room for the rail chargers which would be there anyway. The turret would also be completely inert if shot if it wasn't for the HE in the HEAT rounds, as it is I've never seen it do any internal damage.

There's lots of things I'm unsure about, mostly detailing, ammo choices & system settings, but I'd be interested in what people have to say without directing them to anywhere in particular.

I've done a full run of the DWG with the boat with the design difficulty on 3.0 and the growth factor at about 1.8, it handles it fine. The AI is quite conservative, but it's really designed for you to drive it yourself and I'd *definitely* do that vs some of the nastier airships anyway. I've run it against OW and took out a Bulwark, but it took what felt like most of the day so I'd not be doing that for real. Managed up to some of the smaller SS godly ships ( didn't try any aircraft ) but again, not the intent behind it. There's literally zero lazer defense so that's where the hard line is drawn

Changelog
--
r39 - sensor AI room fixed ( again ), now has enough processing power ( again )
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2016-12-04, 10:13 AM (This post was last modified: 2016-12-04 11:55 AM by Eagle.)
Post: #2
RE: Poke my boat! WIP: Fox-class starter corvette
Nice and Clean design, very modern. I like it! I'll take a look when I'm at the pc Smile

Edit: Well, I've just had a look at your ship. General impression: Impressive. Very compact, very powerful. I like the styling, I like the front gun and I am absolutely amazed at how you managed to build such a heavy boat without it sinking. (although you've cheated a bit with those downward facing props...) I put it against some Steel Strider ships (I test my own vessels against them and against Scarlet Dawn to see their combat effectiveness), expected her to be able to handle at least the bigger "Regular" ships, and she did.

But when putting her through her paces I'm a bit confused by her character. She's both very powerful and very weak. I've decided to put her against my own light destroyer, because they're comparable in cost. Mine is approx 50k in cost. And whilst I expected that your destroyer would just laugh at my ship and sink it in a heartbeat (because gunwise, your ship is just superior to mine), the opposite happened. I've decided to run your ship against mine in two configurations, with my ship as enemy, and with yours as enemy. In the first case, your destroyer survived longer due to the extra healthcare and player bonusses, but in both cases: dead.

This is because your ships' strength is also her weakness; size. The loss of one gun cripples her, and the loss of two guns turns her into a sinking hulk. Besides that, the lack of missile defenses (either LAMS of CIWS) means that she gets hammered to death with ease by missile carrying ships like my destroyer.

All in all, fun little ship, nicely designed, strong against anything without heavy offensive weapons but weak against anything that has, or has missiles.


Attached File(s) Thumbnail(s)
       
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2016-12-04, 01:42 PM (This post was last modified: 2016-12-04 03:32 PM by Richard Dastardly.)
Post: #3
RE: Poke my boat! WIP: Fox-class starter corvette
The down-facing props are roll control, not lift. I agree about defenses, actually - it was never really meant to be a ship you stand there & take punches with, which is why I worked to keep it above 30m/s & keep it's agility - unfortunately persuading the AI to use all that properly is not something I've managed. Missile def is a bit weak but then again the first couple of factions you face don't generally throw many missiles. Certainly don't think I want to try godly-class WF in that thing.

Cost - I'd actually rather make it a bit cheaper, adding LAMS to it's existing form ( I considered it ) would push the cost out of first-boat range which was the point of it. Smoke dispensers to counter lazer guidance is something to add though. Suggestions welcome! I could perhaps swap the 36mm for a tiny lazer system & use a turret when it's not being used for LAMS.

Edit: managed to fit a rather odd lazer system in the 36mm slot, but while it'd probably work ok for LAMS once I completely gut & redesign the engine system ( it needs 3200 power the current one doesn't have spare ) the obvious problem is that I have no AAA while there's missiles nearby! I'll make another attempt at a little CIWS system as well I think. Even without the 36mm turret the cost is up to 46k already - any more & it might be a struggle to run for the initial part of a game.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2016-12-04, 05:21 PM
Post: #4
RE: Poke my boat! WIP: Fox-class starter corvette
Nice little boat! Seems quite powerful, offensively, for its size and cost so well done there. And, more importantly, beautiful FSM flag!
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2016-12-05, 02:19 AM (This post was last modified: 2016-12-05 02:59 AM by Richard Dastardly.)
Post: #5
RE: Poke my boat! WIP: Fox-class starter corvette
Well, did a first pass at stuffing LAMS in the existing hull with the same armament - it uses a fairly heroic amount of resource per second, but there is LAMS in there, the guns stayed the same, and it still floats! and is about 48k. However I realised building it that I don't actually do anything with lazers often and I don't think I know how to set up LAMS properly, so I'll take any advice offered. I couldn't squeeze 4Q on without making holes in the hull which I'm obviously a little loathe to do, but it if makes *that* big a difference over 3Q I can do it. It does seem a bit better at taking small CRAM shells out than large missiles...

BP is the Batch 2 one, I left the original up because I'm extremely sure the LAMS version would make a terrible starter ship...

Are we going to see your destroyer one day, Eagle? would be nice to compare Smile
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2016-12-05, 03:08 AM (This post was last modified: 2016-12-05 03:10 AM by Lincrono.)
Post: #6
RE: Poke my boat! WIP: Fox-class starter corvette
It seems both overengineered and underengineered for a starter ship.

First off: i'm torn on the railgun. On the one hand it's nice to see a dedicated, high-draw railgun in the age of broken shields. On the other hand it doesn't add much to a ship this size. I honestly think a huge improvement to this vessel would be:

-adding a missile counter measure system (flairs, Sonar bouys, Radar bouys)
-replacing the rear railgun with a VLMS cell of around 8-20 missiles. With Lua this thing could easily serve as a main-line frigate against DWG, WF, OW, and probably beyond. I have ships of similar size, cost, (and with a missile cell, armament) that do exactly this.

I'm also torn on the steam engine. for a starter ship this thing consumes an insane amount of resources I could have 2-3 same-cost ships for the cost of running this thing during the early campaign. If you removed the railgun, and just kept shields+propulsion+ammo processing as your power draw, with light rail-assist on the main cannon you could use a much cheaper carb engine. A re-piped blueline derivative could net you as much as 1000ppf with a 3200 power 5x5x7 engine. or go with a re-piped redline derivative running from 350-850ppf in a 5x5xX space with power anywhere from 1400-4400+. I use 2 1400 power engines in a similar sized vessel. I think they're each 5x5x3.

-Do not bring forth an argument as fact that can be disproven with a 10 minute Google search.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2016-12-05, 10:09 AM (This post was last modified: 2016-12-05 10:12 AM by Shiroi_Okami.)
Post: #7
RE: Poke my boat! WIP: Fox-class starter corvette
I had a look at it and tested it vs a couple of my own comparable designs.

Offensively it's quite strong, especially the main fore gun, and it's compact and fast which is nice, but defensively it is very weak. I pit it against my (Revised) 20k mat PT boat, which it killed by then died to torpedoes immediately after, and then I pit it against my 24k mat AA boat, which one shot the Fox with a barrage of small missiles. Took out the AA gun, the main fore fun, and crippled the engine, leaving it dead in the water. I then pit it against m 39k monitor (Which has a single 200mm gun and a 12 missile battery), which also killed the Fox, though the fox did bring my monitor to 81% and destroyed the main gun.

I think as lincrono said ditching the railgun for missiles would add a lot of strength to the ship. With them instead of the railgun I think it would have beaten everything except maybe the monitor. The railgun isn't really doing anything for you (Almost 90% of the damage the ship puts out comes from the bow gun as far as I can tell). Other than that, maybe try a bit less to do everything with one ship, and lessen the cost a bit. Despite what you've said it's not really suitable as a starter ship IMO. Same deal with the steam engine which is burning way too many resources to be useful at the start (Again, IMO)

Overall though it's a pretty solid build, and I very much like the design, which looks like it would fit right in among the SS
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2016-12-05, 12:08 PM
Post: #8
RE: Poke my boat! WIP: Fox-class starter corvette
(2016-12-05 02:19 AM)Richard Dastardly Wrote:  Are we going to see your destroyer one day, Eagle? would be nice to compare Smile

Yeah, I'm currently in the process of going over my fleet to adress the faults that they have. The Conquest (which is the destroyer I put the Fox up against) has just been overhauled, by swapping out the CIWS for a GTG/A Missile battery, but I'm still pondering whether or not she needs extra defensive measures or not. Smile
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2016-12-05, 07:12 PM
Post: #9
RE: Poke my boat! WIP: Fox-class starter corvette
(2016-12-05 03:08 AM)Lincrono Wrote:  First off: i'm torn on the railgun. On the one hand it's nice to see a dedicated, high-draw railgun in the age of broken shields. On the other hand it doesn't add much to a ship this size. I honestly think a huge improvement to this vessel would be:

It's the part which I feel most uncomfortable with when I look at it ( more than the steam engine, to my surprise - but more on that in a sec )

Quote:-adding a missile counter measure system (flairs, Sonar bouys, Radar bouys)

It's got all of the above, although the bouys are currently combined into one & I've never actually seen them counter torps ( not sure if I've come across radar guided missiles ) - some assistance from someone who's made those work would be appreciated. The flares certainly work.

Quote:-replacing the rear railgun with a VLMS cell of around 8-20 missiles. With Lua this thing could easily serve as a main-line frigate against DWG, WF, OW, and probably beyond. I have ships of similar size, cost, (and with a missile cell, armament) that do exactly this.

This I'm not sure about - missiles for me have generally been a lot of ammo for not terribly great effect. Having said that, not tried lua missiles, so I'll build a missile boat first & see. Also, I've seen the railgun snipe magazines/mainframes/turrets consistently so it may not seem like it's doing much for it's placement cost but that is a little deceptive. Running a campaign boat vs personal shielded ships is going to distort capability ( much like the defenses - most of the defense you need vs DWG/OW is just steering ).

I have been leaning to trying to squeeze a copy of the front gun into the rear hull - I'm just wary because the rear of the ship takes most of the damage.

As for the steam engine... that was my reaction until I actually ran a campaign with one. 4.3/s in combat burn does cause me pain, but out of combat use is zero - because steam engines don't consume resource out of play - & no logistic cost. My biggest issue with using steam engines at the moment is that I think they're not finished. What is the resource cost of continual missile barrages?

Regardless I'll stuff a 5x3 fuel engine in when I've picked a different rear weapon system & see how a campaign goes.

The AI is set up quite conservatively, as I mentioned in the OP - perhaps someone could fiddle with it? I generally drive boats myself, so my AI is set up to try & keep things out of trouble - I have a destroyer with AI I'm happy with, but it only works for that particular boat. At some point I'll write myself a lua AI but I'm quite enjoying *not* feeling like I want to write my own game at the moment.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
2016-12-05, 11:45 PM
Post: #10
RE: Poke my boat! WIP: Fox-class starter corvette
(2016-12-05 07:12 PM)Richard Dastardly Wrote:  This I'm not sure about - missiles for me have generally been a lot of ammo for not terribly great effect. Having said that, not tried lua missiles, so I'll build a missile boat first & see. Also, I've seen the railgun snipe magazines/mainframes/turrets consistently so it may not seem like it's doing much for it's placement cost but that is a little deceptive. Running a campaign boat vs personal shielded ships is going to distort capability ( much like the defenses - most of the defense you need vs DWG/OW is just steering ).

I have been leaning to trying to squeeze a copy of the front gun into the rear hull - I'm just wary because the rear of the ship takes most of the damage.

As for the steam engine... that was my reaction until I actually ran a campaign with one. 4.3/s in combat burn does cause me pain, but out of combat use is zero - because steam engines don't consume resource out of play - & no logistic cost. My biggest issue with using steam engines at the moment is that I think they're not finished. What is the resource cost of continual missile barrages?

Regardless I'll stuff a 5x3 fuel engine in when I've picked a different rear weapon system & see how a campaign goes.

missile ammo cost depends on the number and size of missiles and how you generate the ammo. what kind of missiles were you using to such lack of effect? 2-3 warhead frag and emp of all sizes are considered one of the most reliable sources of damage without enemy LAMs.

on the burn rate. 4.3mat/s sounds like very little but you could easily run a fleet of 1/2 dozen similar size/capability ships for a fraction of that using a carb engine. Burning that much a fleet of 3 of these will eat up the cost of a single one every hour and that burden rises with each new addition. Sustaining a fleet of 10 would require you to spend the cost of one every 17.5 minutes, or roughly every 2 battles that's before the cost of ammo or repairs.

-Do not bring forth an argument as fact that can be disproven with a 10 minute Google search.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)