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Optimizing ammunition for pre-existing advanced cannons
2016-07-16, 11:49 PM (This post was last modified: 2016-07-19 05:01 PM by CH1PH34D.)
Post: #1
Optimizing ammunition for pre-existing advanced cannons
[Image: tumblr_oafj2khHbu1rfz11jo1_1280.jpg]
I'm currently overhauling some of my advanced cannons. I've done some number-crunching to get the maximum ammount of dakka without changing the architecture of the gun. I am quite pleased with the results and wanted to tell you about the method I used to achieve them. The attachement of this post is a platform where all the explained steps have been applied to 2 different cannons.
Warning: You will need a basic understanding of the advanced cannon system and quite a bit of free time to use this method... And perhaps a calculator if you're as bad at number crunching as I am.
Also: The second half of step 1 (using the largest shell possible) will not always guarantee the highest efficiency. It is worth its time considering shorter shells, when the overall number of shell modules is low. Projectiles with a large amount of shell modules usually achieve good efficiency without having to tweak the number of shell modules.


1.: Set up the guns and shell length

This integral (and quite time-consuming) step will require you to test your pre-existing advanced cannon with different numbers of barrels. I've found it beneficial to build the cannon 6 times in its exploded state to improve comprehensibility. Each of the 6 cannons has a different number of barrels, ranging from 1 to the maximum of 6 barrels.
For my cannons I've disabled "desired shell gauge" to get the most out of the gauge increasers. Next you will need to place ammo controllers and ammo customisers for each of your guns. To use the length of the ammo clips to their full extent, you will need to calculate how many modules your shell will need to take up as much space as possible. This can be calculated with the following equation: L/G=N, where L is the length of your clip (in cm), G is the gauge of your gun (in cm) and N the number of modules needed to fill the clip to its full extent. You will need to round down N. An example: My gun has 1m (100cm) long clips and a gauge of 36mm (3.6cm). 100/3.6=27.77, so I need 27.77 modules. I will have to make do with 27.


2.: Find the right amount of propellant

Now that you know the length of your shell, it is time to find out how many gunpowder casings it takes to match total reload time and effective barrel cooldown time. The total reload time depends on the guns' gauge, the number of autoloaders, the loading speed modifier and the number of modules the shell has. It can be calculated by using the following equation: R*L/N=t1, where R is the reload time, L the loading speed modifier, N the number of autoloaders and t1 for the total reload time. Divide 60 by t1 to find out how many rounds your gun can now load per minute.
In order to achieve maximum efficiency, the total reload time and effective barrel cooldown time must be matched closely. Otherwise a slow cooldown would hamper quick reloading (or vice versa). As we already know the total reload time we can find out the optimal effective barrel cooldown time. It can be calculated using the following equation: C*M/N=t2, where C is the expected time for barrel cool down after firing(as can be found in the shell customiser), M the cool down modifier (as granted by gauge cooling units and bore evacuators), N the number of barrels and t2 the effective barrel cooldown time. C*M will also be displayed by the advanced cannon as Cooldown after test firing.
Just like with t1 you can also divide 60 by t2 to find out how many rounds your gun can fire per minute.
For 100% (theoretically) efficiency, t1 and t2 must be equal. This can be tweaked by adjusting the number of gunpowder casings. I've managed to achieve 100% theoretical efficiency on a number of different guns, but to achieve 100% actual efficiency, the rate of fire setting would also have to equal the rounds loaded and fired per minute. Unfortunately the rate of fire setting doesn't allow decimal numbers. The efficiency stated on the signs on my platform has this taken into account.


3.: Set up the warhead

Until now you've made sure that your gun fires the biggest shell possible as efficient as possible. The next step is customising the shell to maximize the hurt done by each one. At this point you may replace any warhead components to match the shell to your needs but it is important that the number of gunpowder casings remains the same number you've adjusted it to in step 2. On my platform I've maximized the shells for kinetic damage by using a sabot head and a number of sabot warhead bodies followed by solid warhead bodies and a base bleeder. The damage was then calculated against armour value 10 and multiplied by the number of rounds fired per minute to get a value for damage per minute. Since my guns are supposed to be anti-air and anti-ground I also took muzzle velocity and rate of fire into account for choosing the best setup.


Attached File(s)
.blueprint  TestPlatform 2 Advanced Cannon Lab.blueprint (Size: 207.49 KB / Downloads: 49)

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2016-07-19, 12:46 PM
Post: #2
RE: Optimizing ammunition for pre-existing advanced cannons
Because noone has commented yet, I need to say "Thank you!" this is great info.
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2016-07-19, 02:24 PM
Post: #3
RE: Optimizing ammunition for pre-existing advanced cannons
(2016-07-19 12:46 PM)Pondafarr Wrote:  Because noone has commented yet, I need to say "Thank you!" this is great info.

Thank you. I appreciate the feedback. Right now I'm working on a second platform that will see another 2 advanced cannons with efficiency ratings on different barrel and ammo configurations aswell as "finished" turrets that work with these guns (a single advanced cannon 54mm and a quad advanced cannon for which I don't have the Dmg/min rating yet) However I'm not quite happy with my method yet, as the Dmg/min rating relies on the APS mechanic so only fast shells will actually do decent damage. Calculating shell volume fired per minute would be a bit more complex but I might look into that as it will give a more objective rating.
I could also further refine the method by trimming the gauge down to allow 1m ammunition being used. Right now I just cram in as many shell parts as it will let me which seldonly makes ammunition that really is 1m long.
However first things first: Within an hour or two, a second platform will appear as attachement to this message featuring 2 more guns.

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2016-07-19, 05:00 PM
Post: #4
RE: Optimizing ammunition for pre-existing advanced cannons
I've felt that it'd be a bit cheap to just add the 2nd platform without any words on it, so here she comes:
[Image: tumblr_oakk4aUrTu1rfz11jo2_1280.jpg]
As promised, this platform features another 2 guns with examples on how they can be installed. On the left is the AC54 "Shredder", a asymmetrical, highly compact design for a APS AA gun, firing 131 rounds/min for a bit above 125.000 Dmg/min vs armor 10. On the right is the quad-AC 103 "Thunderer", a quite large design for an APS gun, firing 65 rounds per minute and per gun doing just a bit under 110.000 Dmg/min vs armor 10 per gun. This turret was an experiment for finding a halfway solution between more autoloaders and more gauge increasers as it has less autoloaders than the Shredder and less gauge increasers than the Triflak (which is featured in the 1st platform) and while it performs decently well, its a bit slow on the turning side and might be better used in a 1 or 2 gun turret instead.
Anyway that's all for now folks. In the attachement you'll find the new platform. The first platform has also been updated and remains an attachement to the 1st post in this thread.

Cheers.


Attached File(s)
.blueprint  TestPlatform 2 Advanced Cannon Lab 2.blueprint (Size: 224.48 KB / Downloads: 35)

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2016-07-19, 08:25 PM (This post was last modified: 2016-07-19 08:30 PM by Celestia.)
Post: #5
RE: Optimizing ammunition for pre-existing advanced cannons
Ok, so apparently shell cost is based on Number of shell components/Shell Diameter.
This means that if you use shell parts that are smaller than normal, such as fuses, which are 1/3rd of the length of the normal component size, you end up paying the full cost in ammo for a normal sized component.

So my 6m long 500mm shell has the same cost as a 7m long shell just because it has fuses, which is a massive jump from 380 ammo/shell to 442 ammo/shell (over 7000 ammo/min per firing piece)

So my 9 firing pieces firing at 16 rounds/min each are using in excess of 63,000 ammo per minute....
Yea that just seems kind of ridiculous.

I got the fire rate mixed up with another 500mm cannon that uses 3m autoloaders. That has only 22 rounds/min and 5000 ammo/min
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2016-07-20, 06:07 PM (This post was last modified: 2016-07-20 06:19 PM by CH1PH34D.)
Post: #6
RE: Optimizing ammunition for pre-existing advanced cannons
(2016-07-19 08:25 PM)Celestia Wrote:  Ok, so apparently shell cost is based on Number of shell components/Shell Diameter.
This means that if you use shell parts that are smaller than normal, such as fuses, which are 1/3rd of the length of the normal component size, you end up paying the full cost in ammo for a normal sized component.

So my 6m long 500mm shell has the same cost as a 7m long shell just because it has fuses, which is a massive jump from 380 ammo/shell to 442 ammo/shell (over 7000 ammo/min per firing piece)

So my 9 firing pieces firing at 16 rounds/min each are using in excess of 63,000 ammo per minute....
Yea that just seems kind of ridiculous.

I got the fire rate mixed up with another 500mm cannon that uses 3m autoloaders. That has only 22 rounds/min and 5000 ammo/min

That is quite interesting. Granted I've not yet viewed advanced cannons from an economic perspective, I just tried to throw as much hurt at my enemy as possible. Altho I can see why fuses are this expensive. They can make a mediocre gun into a versatile and efficient machine of death... and before the introduction of CRAM cannons, the argument advanced cannons had fuses while custom cannons hadn't was what made them great. As a matter of fact 3 of my best ships are relying on time fused HE/Frag advanced cannons for anti ship and anti air firepower. However I don't see a point in 50cm advanced cannons since there are cram cannons which can deal absolutely devastating damage while not being susceptible to ammunition cookoff in the same way that advanced cannons are. Even tho a properly large advanced cannon will have a better firing rate and higher muzzle velocity, it will also be an enormous bomb sitting on your ship and possibly the thermal exhaust port in an otherwise big, scary death star.
This is one of the reasons why I got this whole ammunition-engineering thing going. I wanted to have advanced cannons to fill the multipurpose anti air/anti ground role (a thing that crams simly can not do as well for their lack of both rate of fire and muzzle velocity) while not using any explosives. HE/Frag-Advanced cannons are great for anti air but they pose too much of a risk when used in large numbers and/or compact configurations. I've had to re-engineer more than a few ships to take this into account and prevent self destruction after one good hit.
HE/Frag Advanced cannons do work well when spaced apart properly to avoid chain reactions but that's not really an option when you're trying to cram as many guns as you can into the free spaces on your craft.

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2017-10-17, 08:12 AM
Post: #7
RE: Optimizing ammunition for pre-existing advanced cannons
I don't normally reply to things but I have not been able to find any good info on the Advanced cannons until now, thank you so much!
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