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[v 1.967] Air pump off, hull breached, ship doesn't flood
2017-04-20, 09:31 PM
Post: #1
[v 1.967] Air pump off, hull breached, ship doesn't flood
Im pretty sure this is a bug and didn't see a report on it, so here we go.

I am not sure how to reproduce this, since this just sort of happend and i cant explain why, but this is what happend:

I build a submarine and wanted to use air pumps in combination with PID to control it's pitch. As soon as i placed the air pump it did what you expect to do (pump out the water). When i later turn it off (either manually or using an ACB)the compartiment doesn't flood anymore. I found this rather odd and decided to breach my hull, despite the breach my compartiment doesn't flood when there is an airpump in play (even though its turned off)


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.blueprint  BUG.blueprint (Size: 334.29 KB / Downloads: 11)
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2017-04-20, 09:46 PM
Post: #2
RE: [v 1.967] Air pump off, hull breached, ship doesn't flood
I don't know why that is happening, but I'm just saying that general purpose cards don't need to be in a card slot (they just go onto the connector (IDK, that's kind of bugging me))

(Again, I don't know why that is happening, I'm not an expert (also I haven't built a ship yet, I'm too busy building tanks (sorry because I know I'm not being that helpful)))

"If it's stupid but it works, it's not stupid."-TheMightyJingles.

My last name is Proctor
The Proctor is a ship in the game
Yay. I'm happy.

Blueprint thread: http://www.fromthedepthsgame.com/forum/s...?tid=28006
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2017-04-20, 10:18 PM
Post: #3
RE: [v 1.967] Air pump off, hull breached, ship doesn't flood
It shows it's volume is 1 cubic meter. This means, you have another pump in the same space, and this one currently is not working. If you haven't others, then you have breach into other compartment somewhere.
Game handles airpumps as sort of markers for compartment to be "pumped" and only recognizes - and only needs - one pump per room.
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2017-04-20, 10:32 PM
Post: #4
RE: [v 1.967] Air pump off, hull breached, ship doesn't flood
(2017-04-20 09:46 PM)benzo711 Wrote:  I don't know why that is happening, but I'm just saying that general purpose cards don't need to be in a card slot (they just go onto the connector (IDK, that's kind of bugging me))

I am aware, its just a habbit i can't seem to shake

(2017-04-20 10:18 PM)DraWay Wrote:  It shows it's volume is 1 cubic meter. This means, you have another pump in the same space, and this one currently is not working. If you haven't others, then you have breach into other compartment somewhere. Game handles airpumps as sort of markers for compartment to be "pumped" and only recognizes - and only needs - one pump per room.

The volume is indeed 1 cubic meter, but as soon as i replace the block to fill the breach it shows the actual volume, so there is no other air pump. Look at the screenshot where i filled in the breach again.


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2017-04-20, 11:17 PM (This post was last modified: 2017-04-20 11:21 PM by DraWay.)
Post: #5
RE: [v 1.967] Air pump off, hull breached, ship doesn't flood
Now actually examined blueprint ^^"

Actually all boat is flooded. I missed this on screenshot because you painted over it with that red rectangle, but pump is simply turned off. And here weirdness begins: something constantly shuts all airpumps on the ship off, and this is not an ACB, i checked all ACBs i could find (all in that room with hole, right?), none of them set to affect pumps (i changed that grey one, yes), but something constantly shuts them off, overriding any ACBs.

btw good design, i like it!
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2017-04-20, 11:34 PM
Post: #6
RE: [v 1.967] Air pump off, hull breached, ship doesn't flood
The game calculates the volume of an airpump up to its own level: if there are gaps below it in the construction (rather than breaches caused by damage), it calculates its size as just itself, and cannot be breached by damage.

Similarly, I would not trust the "not flooded" on an off airpump: I think that when turned off they just do not calculate their compartment's integrity, so it will read "not flooded" despite counting as flooded for buoyancy (just as a compartment with no pump would).

Allr andask.
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2017-04-21, 09:55 AM
Post: #7
RE: [v 1.967] Air pump off, hull breached, ship doesn't flood
All the pumps are off due to a GP PID. I turned it off.
There's also an ACB that turns the pumps off when the altitude is over 1800m (quite high for a submarine...), I didn't touched it as it isn't usually active.

The leaks can be detected if you move the bad air-pump to the floor, here is the result:
[Image: qdy1SsD.jpg]
As you can see, 90 leaks are detected.
Note that you also have an airpump with more than 5000 of volume. It cause slowdowns when adding or removing a block to the vehicle, I advise you to compartmentalize more your vehicles.


Coming back on the airpump that's the root of the bug.
You're right, there's a bug with airpumps.
I already saw it, but never saved a blueprint with it. And it's really rare to have a bug.

In fact, there are 2 bugs (and probably more) shown by your blueprint:
- in its current position, and with a leak in the submarine, the airpump do not detect any volume
- placed on the floor, with a leak, the airpump detects 90 leaks instead of 4 (a beam is enough to close the submarine) and the volume detected is not correct (about 200 instead of about 1000)

Another strange thing which may help to fix it:
If the leak is fixed (a beam placed where it close the gap), the airpump it its current position works fine.


I made some minor modifications so that the blueprint shows the bugs in an easier-to-see way.
There are an airpump painted in pink, a green wood block, and a wood beam painted in light blue. These 3 blocks are in the same room and very easy to spot.
Currently, there are no problems.
Steps to see the problems:
- load the attached blueprint in the designer
- observe that the pink airpump is showing more than 900 volume and no leaks, normal behaviour
- remove the blue wood block
- observe that the pink airpump isn't detecting more than 1 volume, and no leaks at all (it should detect over than 900 in volume and 4 leaks)
- remove the pink aripump
- replace the green wood block by an airpump
- observe that the new airpump is detecting about 200 volume and 90 leaks (it should detect more than 900 in volume and only 4 leaks)

Note that the number of leaks part of this bug is probably linked to this old bug report (only half fixed, see the sixth post to have the current bug report):
[1.95882] Air (and helium) pumps bug - Post #6


I hope that will help fix that bug.


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2017-04-21, 12:29 PM (This post was last modified: 2017-04-21 12:32 PM by DraWay.)
Post: #8
RE: [v 1.967] Air pump off, hull breached, ship doesn't flood
So PID can control airpumps? That's new, thanks.

But your "bugs" are apparently intended behaviour, let me explain:

Steps to see the problems:
- load the attached blueprint in the designer
/ok

- observe that the pink airpump is showing more than 900 volume and no leaks, normal behaviour
/ok

- remove the blue wood block
/for pumps, this turns the room into outside space, equal to just open deck. One hole is enough. In this case, pump will check surrounding space, and if it's enclosed on five sides (around and down), it will cap the upper boundary of said space by horizontal plane at the level of lowest edge, this way creating an open-up volume. This way hollow hulls with pump can float.

- observe that the pink airpump isn't detecting more than 1 volume, and no leaks at all (it should detect over than 900 in volume and 4 leaks)
/airpump is "outside" and above the lowest edge (which is that hole), so it technically not in room. Just same as if you place it on top of a mast.

- remove the pink aripump
/ok

- replace the green wood block by an airpump
/new pump is below the lowest edge and caps it's pumped room at the level of that hole.

- observe that the new airpump is detecting about 200 volume and 90 leaks (it should detect more than 900 in volume and only 4 leaks)
/as intended, created above open-up space gets flooded, as its edge (hole!) is underwater.

The last two statements are easy to verify: fill with blocks the passage to bigger room, then count number of empty (air) blocks in horizontal plane just below the breach, at the level of lower ACB row and ammo customizer. It's 31. Now check your pump.


And conclusion:
There's no bugs, problem was apparently in that PID turning off airpumps, and lack of knowledge.
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2017-04-21, 11:32 PM
Post: #9
RE: [v 1.967] Air pump off, hull breached, ship doesn't flood
(2017-04-21 09:55 AM)Gladyon Wrote:  There's also an ACB that turns the pumps off when the altitude is over 1800m (quite high for a submarine...), I didn't touched it as it isn't usually active.

This was temporarily used with a different altitude setting to turn off all the pumps in order to check if the compartiments flood. The pumps kept saying 0# flooded.


Another strange thing which may help to fix it:
If the leak is fixed (a beam placed where it close the gap), the airpump it its current position works fine.

Then why does it say 0% flooded when turned off? I am confused very much and feel like an idiot because you guys probably know better than me but i seem to remember:
turning off airpumps = 100 % flooded

I made some minor modifications so that the blueprint shows the bugs in an easier-to-see way.

I will look into this tomorrow , thanks for setting it up!
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2017-04-21, 11:56 PM
Post: #10
RE: [v 1.967] Air pump off, hull breached, ship doesn't flood
(2017-04-21 09:55 AM)Gladyon Wrote:  - observe that the new airpump is detecting about 200 volume and 90 leaks (it should detect more than 900 in volume and only 4 leaks)

I hope that will help fix that bug.

I wanted to check it tomorrow but did it now anyway... I did exactly as you described and everthing you say seems right, it changes the volume and the leaks are wrong. However now it does say that the 200 volume is 100% flooded. Note that in all my previous attempts it shows 0% flooded in whatever situation, which i tried to show in my screenshots

After i followed your instructions i did this:
- i turn of the air pump, my volume is still 100% flooded.
- then i fill in the hole where the blue wood beam was
- the volume goes back to 900 and my 100 % flooded compartiment slowly going back to 0% flooded, while my air pump is turned off.

Shoudln't this stay 100% flooded?
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