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Ballast Tanks
2017-03-20, 03:12 AM
Post: #1
Ballast Tanks
near-simple idea that came to me suddenly.

The Ballast Tanks for Constructables.


Essentially a new type of block (may use those old 3x3 tanks that currently in material containers) that do for ship exactly same thing, as ballast tank module does for missiles.
Possible way is automatically adjust tank's mass (to some max limit) to counter current buoyancy of whole craft and make it neutral in water.

Then we can control that via ACBs to regulate depth. Have there -1 -> 0 -> +1 slider with "-1" - full mass, "0" - neutral and "1" - empty tanks.
May use engine power for "pumps" and have buoyancy almost of empty space when empty.
Additionally have "desired depth" slider that will try to use previous one to hold itself at set depth, or just leave this for ACBs.
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2017-03-20, 03:38 AM
Post: #2
RE: Ballast Tanks
This would be very useful... Not only for buoyancy, but also just for balancing ships out on the cheap. Maybe switch -1 from full mass to empty, IMO having it represent mass rather than buoyancy is the way to go. Also, perhaps make 'empty' actually be airpumped, though obviously not as effective as an equivalent volume pumped space.
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2017-03-20, 12:15 PM
Post: #3
RE: Ballast Tanks
How exactly does this differ from ACB controlled airpumps to simulate ballast tanks?

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2017-03-20, 12:26 PM (This post was last modified: 2017-03-20 12:26 PM by ThunderPanzer.)
Post: #4
RE: Ballast Tanks
(2017-03-20 12:15 PM)Eagle Wrote:  How exactly does this differ from ACB controlled airpumps to simulate ballast tanks?
You can't flood airpump spaces to increase mass and therefore increase density like real flooding would. In FtD, when you don't have airpumps, the water doesn't weight you down like it should, it just has 0 buoyancy while all the buoyancy is provided by the blocks themselves. This is incredibly frustrating since if you make a ship too light, it'll float ridiculously high and topple over.

You could in theory use lead, but then it has the issue of block count. This too will have block count issues but not as bad. Also filling your ship with lead is slightly weird.

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2017-03-20, 07:27 PM (This post was last modified: 2017-03-20 07:29 PM by DraWay.)
Post: #5
RE: Ballast Tanks
(2017-03-20 12:15 PM)Eagle Wrote:  How exactly does this differ from ACB controlled airpumps to simulate ballast tanks?

I think two things:
- this is just one (two, more?) block with it's own internal properties instead of rather computation-heavy mechanic of determining volume and checking breaches that pumps have,
- and it allow negative buoyancy (so no need for ballast blocks if ship suddenly too light), also it can allow automatic control of ship's overall buoyancy instead of only its own space.

Look at it as automated airpumped lead block.

(2017-03-20 12:26 PM)ThunderPanzer Wrote:  Also filling your ship with lead is slightly weird.

Not so weird, lead ballast really was used sometimes.
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2017-03-21, 09:26 AM
Post: #6
RE: Ballast Tanks
(2017-03-20 12:26 PM)ThunderPanzer Wrote:  
(2017-03-20 12:15 PM)Eagle Wrote:  How exactly does this differ from ACB controlled airpumps to simulate ballast tanks?
You can't flood airpump spaces to increase mass and therefore increase density like real flooding would. In FtD, when you don't have airpumps, the water doesn't weight you down like it should, it just has 0 buoyancy while all the buoyancy is provided by the blocks themselves. This is incredibly frustrating since if you make a ship too light, it'll float ridiculously high and topple over.

You could in theory use lead, but then it has the issue of block count. This too will have block count issues but not as bad. Also filling your ship with lead is slightly weird.

I use lead on all my ships... It helps keep the CoM low. Traditionally, stone is often used as keelballast, to stabilize a ship. Even on modern ships there is ballast on board. I live near a few shipyards, and when the ships are launched the prop still sticks above the waterline, it needs to be transported to sea first before being weighed down with ballast.

And no, you cannot decrease the bouyancy of ballast tanks to be below zero bouyancy, but with proper design you can regulate overall bouyancy quite well. All my subs use airpump controlled ballast tanks to regulate bouyancy.

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2017-03-21, 10:53 AM (This post was last modified: 2017-03-21 10:54 AM by ThunderPanzer.)
Post: #7
RE: Ballast Tanks
Yeah i didn't mean just a lead or counterweight keel, that's common. What i do see as weird, is having to fill up the whole of my torpedo bulges on a cruiser made entirely out of alloy, just so it floats like a normal ship and not with a 2m draft (without even a single airpump)
Granted full alloy ships are rather uncommon, but yeah Tongue

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2017-03-21, 11:53 AM
Post: #8
RE: Ballast Tanks
Maybe you should make them out of metal instead then? Tongue It doesn't cost all that much more and doesn't have an absurd positive bouyancy. TBH, there are so much things wrong with the structural blocks that a discussion on negative bouyancy seems misplaced.

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2017-03-21, 12:38 PM
Post: #9
RE: Ballast Tanks
I'd rather we moved to using displacement than fiddle with more bouyancy patching. We even already have block density, although it'd probably need fiddling with anyway.

Poke my boat! pre-2.0 learning & catalogue thread - 6 ships made 2.0 aware. Regularily doing other things until the eye-strain post-processing can be disabled again; great game but not worth the literal headache.
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2017-03-21, 12:44 PM
Post: #10
RE: Ballast Tanks
(2017-03-20 12:26 PM)ThunderPanzer Wrote:  
(2017-03-20 12:15 PM)Eagle Wrote:  How exactly does this differ from ACB controlled airpumps to simulate ballast tanks?
You can't flood airpump spaces to increase mass and therefore increase density like real flooding would. In FtD, when you don't have airpumps, the water doesn't weight you down like it should, it just has 0 buoyancy while all the buoyancy is provided by the blocks themselves. This is incredibly frustrating since if you make a ship too light, it'll float ridiculously high and topple over.

You could in theory use lead, but then it has the issue of block count. This too will have block count issues but not as bad. Also filling your ship with lead is slightly weird.

The best thing would be to fix the main problem, and give water some weight when it's flooding a room.
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