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Advanced Cannon would be overpowered with the power nerf
2015-11-03, 01:55 PM
Post: #21
RE: Advanced Cannon would be overpowered with the power nerf
I think at least part of the issue is just that nothing is really balanced right now. That is fine. I wouldn't expect things to be balanced at all at this stage. Though discussing the issue certainly has merit. Honestly, it feels like armor is totally useless. Might as well make everything out of wood. At least that way you don't sink from the first shot. It's sheer block spam meta in the campaign. If not in the form of insanely huge constructions, then it's numerous small constructions. Let's not forget the power creep that is gong on from trying to out damage the overpowered repair ability. There are a lot of really counter intuitive mechanics. How is it that there is water by default flowing into sealed compartments? Why are there no bilge pumps? Why are MG caliber shells going through a full meter of armor or more?

I don't know why everyone is worried about the engine overhaul ruining their stacked shield builds. I think we will probably not have much trouble producing the power required to run the shields. If we get generator attachments for the custom turbine engines, then fuel will be the primary concern. We are supposed to be getting nuclear power plants as well. Let's just hope that those are at least prohibitively expensive. You can already jump right into the campaign and scrap your starting base and build one heck of a missile destroyer. The poor DWG doesn't even stand a chance. You can walk right through them from the very beginning. As fast as the other factions gain strength, you almost have to.
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2015-11-03, 02:13 PM (This post was last modified: 2015-11-03 02:33 PM by goduranus.)
Post: #22
RE: Advanced Cannon would be overpowered with the power nerf
Nice cannon plane!Big Grin

Here's a version of Norge with almost maxed out cannons as promised, totally covered in muzzle blastsBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig Grin
The closer Norge is the old version 10 seconds into the fight.

[Image: oB4S44Ph.jpg]

I didn't get the reload down to 0.1s because there's no space in the Norge, but with a bigger turret like in the Bullshark the new cannons will be a total slaughter.


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2015-11-03, 02:42 PM
Post: #23
RE: Advanced Cannon would be overpowered with the power nerf
I've been saying the APS cannons are not underwhelming, good to see I was right. On topic, I don't think it is fair to make assumptions about the relative power/weakness of shields until the engine overhaul actually drops. Mr. Smart has already said that shields will be looked at in the areas of power consumption and strength because of the overhaul/APS cannons. I really think APS cannons are going to be the measuring stick against which other weapons will be measured/balanced going forward.
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2015-11-03, 03:36 PM
Post: #24
RE: Advanced Cannon would be overpowered with the power nerf
(2015-11-03 02:13 PM)goduranus Wrote:  Nice cannon plane!Big Grin

Here's a version of Norge with almost maxed out cannons as promised, totally covered in muzzle blastsBig GrinBig GrinBig GrinBig Grin
The closer Norge is the old version 10 seconds into the fight.

I didn't get the reload down to 0.1s because there's no space in the Norge, but with a bigger turret like in the Bullshark the new cannons will be a total slaughter.

Daaaamn, that was effective.
IF you ever want to rebuild a WF battleship turret, id like to see what you could do to make a Pure AP cannon great. 2m-4m loaders, 1-3 barrels.

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2015-11-03, 05:04 PM (This post was last modified: 2015-11-03 05:11 PM by goduranus.)
Post: #25
RE: Advanced Cannon would be overpowered with the power nerf
I had some tests, AP was somewhat less effective than HE.
The best way to go with AP seems to be medium caliber gatling guns:
5 block shells with one sabot head for high muzzle velocity,
10cm caliber so they fit into the belt autoloader,
6 barrel per mantlet with many coolers to maximize ROF,
long barrels to ensure enough velocity
aimpoint selection to penetrate vitals quickly.

Testing this concept on the Norge again because I don't have a WF ship with ammo infrastructure set up.


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2015-11-04, 09:41 PM
Post: #26
RE: Advanced Cannon would be overpowered with the power nerf
(2015-11-03 10:10 AM)goduranus Wrote:  
(2015-11-03 09:43 AM)Maverick966 Wrote:  That's the problem, the HE projectiles are too effective against armor, more of AP projectiles.

Yeah I hope the damage value of HE vs armor gets a reduction. So HEAT is needed to destroy armor, or AP to go through it.

Depends on what kind of shell you have.
HESH is an effective anti armour round, turning the ships own armour into partical/physical damage on blocks behind it.
HE is not purely HE, most HE warheads are rarely used on their own, and often are used with a AP shell, allowing them to penetrate and destroy armour by exploding within the armour.

That and its just how the game works with the block hitpoint system
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2015-11-06, 12:56 PM (This post was last modified: 2015-11-06 01:01 PM by mrvecz.)
Post: #27
RE: Advanced Cannon would be overpowered with the power nerf
The only overpowerd-ness i detected that they are too much versatile, they now can counter anything that used to counter them
Microjets = Rail guns
Space ships = Rail Gun
Subs = That depth component Nick mentioned

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2015-11-06, 03:12 PM
Post: #28
RE: Advanced Cannon would be overpowered with the power nerf
i think pretty the opposite. They are too specialised and if you use them on "Ok i did this to counter this" it will work, but play it in campaign or in a setting where you don't really know what you will face and you'll se they are pretty bad. goduranus find them powerful cause he use the belted loader that give a nice burst, and this accentuate even the paper/stone/scissor thing.

Against microjets you don't want to use railguns (which are gauss) but a laser it's seriously so much more efficient for the same amount of power used.

For spaceships, that works fine, cause like i said in my other post, the things they are really good at, is snipping.

For subs again custom canons and torpedoes works way better except if you put a canon underwarter facing down to catch submarine (which is a nonsense). Why?
Cause CC already fire with an heavier arc than the ACC, so they are less likely to ricochet and with the HEAP mechanism they act like grenades. Try to use a submarine against the SS Thyr and you will understand why. And again, lasers works perfectly underwater too and torpedoes don't have any counter. So using ACC against submarine don't look wise at all.

They looks versatile cause you can set many ammo types, but they are not in-game cause you can't change those ammos on purpose, so in the end they always face situations they are useless. And it would be really nice to me if you didn't have jack of all spades facing it currently.
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2015-11-06, 03:29 PM
Post: #29
RE: Advanced Cannon would be overpowered with the power nerf
Advanced Cannons are nice and all that. Extremely versatile but sometimes just a plain old trusty missile is all you need Tongue.

Once AI is not retarded anymore and you can turn on and off specific autoloaders with Lua i would see the Advanced Cannons to REALLY start shining with versatility. But for now just use more cannons on your ship than one to get all payloads you want Tongue.

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2015-11-06, 03:51 PM
Post: #30
RE: Advanced Cannon would be overpowered with the power nerf
I don't like the idea of everything in the game should be useless, unless you use LUA ...

Missiles with LUA guidance are already overpowered, ignoring flares and tracking enemies like no "vanilla" can do, with no drawbacks at all.
Then you have the navigation AI that can evade missiles or incoming shot without crashing itself or going stupidly backward.

Now if you require a LUA for canons too, to actually hurt something, first it will make so much more lags and secondly that mean you can't play the game without coding or download scripts. Really don't like this. I really hope there will never be options to turn on/off loaders with LUA and instead simply fix what is currently wrong with AC parts.
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