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So as I think I mentioned the resources in FS are vary varied and realistically processed.

This means it can require quite a lot of vehicle space and crew to make something.

One example of this I've recently been working on is the Saltpetre for the production of gunpowder.

This will be made like it was in the medieval times... you essentially mix a lot of dung with soil and leave it for about a year, urinating on it very frequently!

Once you've done that you take this nitrate rich soil and put it in a cask and pour water into it to absorb the nitrates to make nitrate rich water

you then boil that water to get rid of the "wrong" nitrates, and leave you with the saltpetre.

Now I don't particularly want the game to force everyone to create their own dung and urine supply chains for this basic chemical... so there are going to be frequent encounters with vessels that manufacture and sell various things.

This will give you the option of continued trade, or attacking and trying to capture their vessel, or attacking and accidentally sinking their ship.

If you attack them you'll cause a surge in the price of the saltpetre (less supply now) and find future saltpetre encounters less commonly, at least for a period of time.

Obviously if you capture the vessel, maintain it and crew it you will have secured your own means of production.

Or you can just build your own ship and do it yourself.

Anyway this mechanic of trading with specific traders/manufacturers for things should mean players can have different styles- for example building fast attack ships and focusing on attacking treasure fleets or spice traders, and then using the stolen goal and spice to buy more ammo, iron, ammo, guns etc, would be as legitimate a strategy as building an industrial fleet and producing loads of stuff to sell to buy weapons / crew
I love it, Awesome, This will definitely add to the Strategic and realism part a lot.
Keep up the work, can't wait to play the first version of this game Smile
>own means of production
SEIZED
(2017-10-12 08:28 PM)Nick Smart Wrote: [ -> ]Obviously if you capture the vessel, maintain it and crew it you will have secured your own means of production.

Or you can just build your own ship and do it yourself.

Anyway this mechanic of trading with specific traders/manufacturers for things should mean players can have different styles- for example building fast attack ships and focusing on attacking treasure fleets or spice traders, and then using the stolen goal and spice to buy more ammo, iron, ammo, guns etc, would be as legitimate a strategy as building an industrial fleet and producing loads of stuff to sell to buy weapons / crew

Does this mean that there will be no bases so to speak but that all production and manufacturing will be done on moving ships?

If moving the ships around cost resources ( fuel or labor ) does it really make sense to spend that extra cost on moving around heavy manufacturing equipment instead of having it on a stationary base like you would in reality?

(2017-10-12 08:46 PM)Skyer Wrote: [ -> ]This will definitely add to the Strategic and realism part a lot.

IMO it seems like moving production from stationary platforms ( FTD ) to moving ships would at first glance reduce realism, not add to it.

Ofcourse realism in production chains do seem greatly increased which is indeed great.
(2017-10-13 08:46 AM)Ixos Wrote: [ -> ]IMO it seems like moving production from stationary platforms ( FTD ) to moving ships would at first glance reduce realism, not add to it.

In a world of great dangers and high piracy rate, staying at one place with something of great value is the best way to be plundered.
By always moving we reduce the chances of a coordinated attack, so we'll have to face only the lone pirate now and then.

I think that's a good reason for moving platforms.
Especially if you use sails to move them for free.
(2017-10-13 09:18 AM)Gladyon Wrote: [ -> ]In a world of great dangers and high piracy rate, staying at one place with something of great value is the best way to be plundered.

That's not a solution that was possible in reality. In reality you couldn't produce anything of value efficiently without access to raw materials ( which would not move around ).

And the realistic solution to raiders was to build walls and defenses, even in places with extremely high Piracy like the Caribbean or Roman Mediterranean the pirates could only ever prey on the "weak links" between such forts (specialized trade ships), or on smaller undefended villages.

Another point is that real trade is based on re-occurrence. If all trade ships move around on random to not be predictable and avoid pirates there is no way to guarantee you will find someone to trade food with or whatever you need, meaning the entire concept of trading is kind of pointless.


It might make some sense for a game where only oceans exists, but I still wouldn't call it very realistic.
(2017-10-13 10:09 AM)Ixos Wrote: [ -> ]It might make some sense for a game where only oceans exists, but I still wouldn't call it very realistic.

Honestly, I don't know how a 100% ocean world works.
It may be completely different than what we are used to. In fact, it probably is.
Look at how different civilization evolved up to now, there are a lot of differences, I'm pretty sure that with an environment completely different, such as only water, a civilization can evolve in ways very hard to predict.

The differences between civilizations are decreasing, but that's mainly because of the highly efficient ways of communication we have developed.
What if it would still take days for information to travel 1000km?
With only water, it's less easy to build infrastructures, so efficient communication may be harder to achieve.
Without efficient communication, civilization have a tendency to differ more and more with time.

Our rational mind wants to find logic and solutions, and to achieve that it's trying to apply what it already knows, which is why humanity is repeating the same errors over and over again by the way...
In fact I'm pretty sure we cannot even begin to guess how such a civilization would have evolved.

Try to think about how humanity will live in 1000 years.
All we can do is to provides possibilities, but there are so many of them that I'm sure that even if I tried 1000 guesses they all would be very far from what it will be.


So, the question is, what is 'realistic' about something humanity never ever experienced?
I think it's a very abstract concept.
We are all like children when speaking about things so vastly distant of everything we ever saw, experienced, or heard about.
In the end what I think matters the most for fun gameplay is that it "feels" right & logical, and if it's too far from reality it probably won't do that.

If you look at all the popular Science Fiction games & movies you see this all the time, places named similar to real places and inspired by real cultures or concepts, to get that feeling of authenticity ( even if it by definition is fake ).



I still think some game design questions need to have a clear answer for the game to make logical sense, at least for me:

- If the trade/production ships move around randomly to avoid pirates + find resources, and have no way to communicate, then how do they find each-other to trade?
- How are new ships built if there are no safe havens and everything moves constantly? I mean you can't build a ship from scratch while on the move really.

Sorry if these already have been answered elsewhere, I have read around a bit but couldn't find anything.
(2017-10-13 11:18 AM)Ixos Wrote: [ -> ]In the end what I think matters the most for fun gameplay is that it "feels" right & logical, and if it's too far from reality it probably won't do that.

If you look at all the popular Science Fiction games & movies you see this all the time, places named similar to real places and inspired by real cultures or concepts, to get that feeling of authenticity ( even if it by definition is fake ).

That's true, we're always trying to get back to what we know, it's human.
But we also must keep a part of fiction and unknown, after all the main goal of entertainment is to escape real life for some time.
I suppose we all have different needs regarding the quantity of fiction in a game.


(2017-10-13 11:18 AM)Ixos Wrote: [ -> ]I still think some game design questions need to have a clear answer for the game to make logical sense, at least for me:

- If the trade/production ships move around randomly to avoid pirates + find resources, and have no way to communicate, then how do they find each-other to trade?
- How are new ships built if there are no safe havens and everything moves constantly? I mean you can't build a ship from scratch while on the move really.

Sorry if these already have been answered elsewhere, I have read around a bit but couldn't find anything.

These are good questions.
I don't have the answers, and I'm not sure how much of FS lore has been written.

As for building a ship while moving, I think it's possible.
Of course you will be moving every minute, you can build some parts, and then go to another location, and then continue building.
It's more a matter of the size of the building ship.
In fact, that may make it impossible to build a very large ship too soon, you would have to expand by steps, which is always good from a gameplay point of view.

I did that when I played Adventure in FtD when it got out.
I began by extending a bit the initial raft, and then I needed something a lot more powerful.
So I built a hull under my small ship, and for a long time I continued to build the larger ship with the smaller one inside it.
When I was attacked I either used the small ship weapons to defend myself, or ran away to the nearest gate when I knew I couldn't survive the fight.

I haven't tried the gates where there was no enemies inside, it was a lot more fun to have to build my ship while moving and fighting.

And when I had a larger ship I began to build a small flotilla of smaller builds, submarines, planes, etc.
I had a lot of fun while playing like that.
(2017-10-13 11:35 AM)Gladyon Wrote: [ -> ]As for building a ship while moving, I think it's possible.

...

I did that when I played Adventure in FtD when it got out.
I began by extending a bit the initial raft, and then I needed something a lot more powerful.

IMO it's mostly a question of how realistic you want the building and production process to be too, and judging by the details Nick lined out for gunpowder production that answer is VERY realistic and detailed.

With a teleportation and spawning + central stockpile building system like FTD shipbuilding while moving can be done no problems, but I am skeptical it could mesh well with a realistic production and construction system.

But now we are getting of topic from Trade, sorry.
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